Questions about new system under production

[ButchDeal]

I have tried 7 or 8 times now to go to Pvwatts.com. when I try and go there I end up at Ww42.pvwatts.com. I get arrows that I click on for information and I get links to companies and more companies and more companies. I don't know what's going on but that's what it's been since yesterday. I just tried it again just now I get the same thing. Maybe on my PC it would work? But my tablet and phone yield the same thing for 2 days now.

Try http://pvwatts.nrel.gov instead

[Markinphoenix]

Try http://pvwatts.nrel.gov instead

Thanks, I just Google it and found the address you show. At least now I don't feel quite so stupid! LoL the correct info goes a very long way.

[Markinphoenix]

I think it's chocolate shake time at the local QT gas station!

[Markinphoenix]

The shake paid off in spades! Being a car guy, this was awesome!

[Markinphoenix]

I'm all better! (Sorry for getting off track, I'm building a 380 HP 420cu. SBC for my old truck.)

Here is the link to Youtube of the mass exit! LOL

https://youtu.be/Qnb0lZzelzQ

[Markinphoenix]

I have been watching my APS bills now for 6 months. I"ve been banking small amounts of on and off peak credits. The rep from APS said i'd run out in June or July. She was right on. My May bill arrived yesterday. I went through EVERY off peak credit in May, ending at a big ZERO! and now owing NINETY dollars to APS and my $96 to SunPower. I went through ALMOST ALL my On peak credits, I have a whopping 86kw hours left. That will be gone in about 4 days at my current usage, which is now close to 28% LESS than it was last year, month to month. But I'm agreed to let it run the year before seeking help from the Corp commission and a lawyer. From what I"m seeing right now, with 2 A/C's running, (one a new 3 1/2 ton and one a 1 ton), if both are on, i'm buying from APS. If one goes off, i'm banking a tiny tiny amount. As I have been told, 18 panels, while ok up till now, is no were near enough for my screaming hot summer months that I will see for the next 4 1/2 months paying full bore with no credits left to draw on.

[NYHeel]

I know this has been a long thread and people have told you a lot of things but can I just add one. Please don't refer to the number of panels you have. That's not really all that relevant and doesn't tell us anything about your system. What is relevant is the total power of your system. Meaning the amount of watts per panel multiplied by the number of panels. For example, if you have 18 panels at 300 watts each then you have a 5.4 kW system. The 5.4 kW is the only meaningful number there.

[Markinphoenix]

Sorry. I'm forgetting it's a very long thread. I have either 340 or 345 kwh panels.

I just spent over an hour with APS going over my bill and trend. I did in fact run out of off-peak credits and will likely be at zero until November or December. He says my On-peak is going down but "may" last for another two months before being depleted. He ran all my numbers and agrees that I need about 30 panels to have enough banked to make it work. Since I'm on gas on about everything else, he's going to run some numbers with me on a 24/7 fixed cost instead of the EPR-6 plan, just for curiosity sake.

[J.P.M.]

Sorry. I'm forgetting it's a very long thread. I have either 340 or 345 kwh panels.

If they are Sunpower, they are 345 WATT panels. FYI, "kwh" (sic), proper use is kWh BTW with the "W" capitalized , is a unit of energy and == 1,000 Watt - hours.

[sunnyguy]

Sorry. I'm forgetting it's a very long thread. I have either 340 or 345 kwh panels.

I just spent over an hour with APS going over my bill and trend. I did in fact run out of off-peak credits and will likely be at zero until November or December. He says my On-peak is going down but "may" last for another two months before being depleted. He ran all my numbers and agrees that I need about 30 panels to have enough banked to make it work. Since I'm on gas on about everything else, he's going to run some numbers with me on a 24/7 fixed cost instead of the EPR-6 plan, just for curiosity sake.

Most people run out of off peak credits. On peak are the important ones. So are you on track to save any money this year? You said your usage is down 28% but does that include self consumption?

[Markinphoenix]

From my conversations with APS, my overall combined usage is down about 28%. Probably due to now having about 40% of my home roof shaded by the panels, my new AC unit, new fridge and coating my 800 sq ft shop roof with white reflective coating.

APS said, again, that I need at least 30 panels to bank enough off peak to keep me going at night since the AC is on in both buildings. The shop is, as of today, on a programmable thermostat so I don't forget to set the temp up at night. I'm in there every day till about 9 or 10 pm, but i'm running it at 80, 85 when it's not in use. I"ve converted all the interior and exterior bulbs to LED and have motion sensors where ever possible.

My On peak number I posted was incorrect. I am pulling about 215 kwh each month now from what is banked and it "should" hold out another 3 months, hopefully. APS projects that my bills to them, will continue to be about $100 to $130 a month, plus my SunPower payment. At this rate, I will be saving money, just no anywhere close to how it was presented a YEAR AGO by Tom Hayes, the "salesman" that we worked with. The next 3 months will be close on On peak. OFF peak is a done deal, i'll be buying for the rest of the summer. Had a properly sized system been installed, somewhere around 30 or so panels, my off peak would have enough to carry itself through. It's not anywhere close to what was presented to us but it appears that it will be cheaper with solar than without, but not by much.

Aps said that most of the people they are talking to now, are saying the same things I"m saying. Poor presentation, misleading information and that most people going solar end up saving between $30 to $60 a month. My reply was for $30 a month, I could up my thermostat 2 degrees, change my bulbs and pee in the dark and save more. He agreed. The industry, like most, is about sales and profits with little regard to the end user, old people like my wife and I trying to make it.

It sucks but I"m stuck on a 20 year lease that will cost me, probably, about 8 grand to break and then end up with what??? Holes in my roof I guess.

But with all the rate hikes that APS is trying to push through, 8% is on the table now, my savings will hopefully grow as time goes on. "Supposedly", APS will not come after anyone that has roof top solar already on, for "fees". But I'm not holding my breath. They are still trying to squeeze more BS fees from future solar users. They suck, just like Harmon Solar. But there is nothing the little guy can do, they are a monopoly and have too many of the local politicians on their payroll. Typical.

So, back to my shop to enjoy my AC while trying to keep busy. Later.
Mark

[Markinphoenix]

Here is my current bill. To me, it's not even useable. Solar city agrees it's a complicated mess.................on purpose. But for your viewing pleasure, should you like to see what APS sends out to us "common folk", here it is. juneaps.jpg

[sunnyguy]

Remember APS cannot measure your self consumption. They can only measure delivered + received. But your actual total consumption is generated (sunpower) - received (APS) + delivered (APS). So it might not really be down 28%. If you had 30 panels your payment to sunpower would be more than you are currently paying combined to APS and sunpower. So I would say your system is maybe only a few panels short if you end up running out of on peak credits. The goal with solar is to only cover the on peak usage. Because buying off peak from APS is cheaper than making it from solar. That doesn't change anything with regard to the sales pitch or promised savings, but the number of panels seems almost correct.

[Markinphoenix]

By telling them my total inverter generation so far, they were able to guess pretty close to total usage since commissioning. If I recall, it's showing total generation of just over 7,400. My last year total usage was just over 16,000, 3 years ago, over 18,000.
Yes, it's pretty close. APS said even if I had 24 panels, I'd be closer to making the "as sold" savings. But at this point, we realize we got took and am just trying to see how bad. If I can save $500 to $800 a year, i'll call it good and flip off Dan King and Tom Hayes on my way by their business and call it done. I do not have the time, energy or money to take this to court. For young people who can install/maintain their own systems, buying is a great way to go. Leasing, now that I understand more 12 months later, is a crap shoot, depending on the honesty of the salesperson.

I suppose If I could find an affordable load controller to keep both AC's from running at the same time, it would help. When either is on by itself, i'm good. When both are on, I'm buying no questions asked. The incoming meter from the pole is screaming pointing right. One AC, i'm banking a little. Oh well.

[cebury]

You are coming closer to fully understanding how solar plus billing works, but you aren't there yet. Glad you are withholding your finger until the year is complete. Because part of what you are missing is that you will generate a lot more on peak credits when fall comes, much like spring. I'll be happy to subscribe to this thread to see how it ends. If you end up saving $1000 a year (plus avoiding kWh rate increases) for electric rates, some people would be extremely happy with that decision.