Tesla announces "Powerwall" batteries

[Ian S]

I find it interesting that the 10kWh is for occasional cycling for backup, and the 7kWH is for daily cycling. What are they doing differently? Is it a different physical battery, or is it just power management?

Dying to hear more details...

Apparently both systems weigh the same so could the difference be in DOD?

[Ian S]

What IEEE battery committee do you sit on?

In the immortal words of the most tech savy person you will ever meet: Who gives a crap?

[Amy@altE]

I wonder if the difference between the 7 kWh and 10 kWh units is
not in the hardware, but rather in battery management, and the
lower price is from lower expected warranty replacement costs.

I find it interesting that the 10kWh is for occasional cycling for backup, and the 7kWH is for daily cycling. What are they doing differently? Is it a different physical battery, or is it just power management?

Dying to hear more details...

[DanKegel]

I wonder if the difference between the 7 kWh and 10 kWh units is
not in the hardware, but rather in battery management, and the
lower price is from lower expected warranty replacement costs.

[Sunking]

Why do you believe that Panasonic and Tesla have not tested their cells? Do you believe that they don't have the same torture tests that have been running continuously?

Sure I do, but no one has seen it publicly. Tesla uses Panasonic cells, they do not make cells. The Giga plant touted by Tesla is a licensed product from Panasonic. I stay on top of it. Manufactures can claim all they want. When they do not state what test protocol they use and do not publish results is a Red Flag. For RE batteries the test protocol is IEC 61427. Show me the the data. I do not be believe claims. Only manufactures, distributors, investors, and advocates believe claims. With only two post which one are you? What IEEE battery committee do you sit on?

[tech01x]

How can you possible know it has 10 year life? It has not ever been tested or even one unit sold. Aquion made that claim and are going bankrupt.

There are currently batteries on the market that outperform the Tesla vaporware battery that have a track record with 5 years of continuous testing since late 2009. To date over 2500 cycles to 80% DOD and still counting using IEC 61427 the most punishing battery test protocol devised made specifically for Solar and energy storage for 30% less cost. It is no contest. Tesla has vaporware and others have 80 year track record and independent testing confirms rock solid results.

I am all for Lithium battery technology and have been following it closely for 10 years as a professional. If you want to believe hype have at it. I base my professional opinion on test data and facts that can be verified by independent testing labs. Tesla has none of that and cannot have that for at least 5 years if they even allow their product to be tested. Right now all you got is promises for an over priced product.

If Tesla is using the same cells that currently go into the Model S pack, they have many years of experience with them. Those cells are related to the NCR18650BE and Panasonic has tested them. Why do you believe that Panasonic and Tesla have not tested their cells? Do you believe that they don't have the same torture tests that have been running continuously? All the EV manufacturers do this. The cells have been inside automobiles, a far more strenuous environment since 2011, with shipping end user product since mid 2012. Pulse discharge easily in the 4-5C range and Supercharging is about 1.5 to 1.7C.

Of course, you can wait for independent testing lab results. That will take a while. In the meantime, the battery degradation levels for Model S vehicles with > 100,000 miles is pretty impressive.

[Sunking]

I agree that's where it is right now.

But $3000 for 2 kW (3 kW peak) and 7 kWh for daily cycling with a 10 year warranty looks like it could be competitive for off-grid. .

How can you possible know it has 10 year life? It has not ever been tested or even one unit sold. Aquion made that claim and are going bankrupt.

There are currently batteries on the market that outperform the Tesla vaporware battery that have a track record with 5 years of continuous testing since late 2009. To date over 2500 cycles to 80% DOD and still counting using IEC 61427 the most punishing battery test protocol devised made specifically for Solar and energy storage for 30% less cost. It is no contest. Tesla has vaporware and others have 80 year track record and independent testing confirms rock solid results.

I am all for Lithium battery technology and have been following it closely for 10 years as a professional. If you want to believe hype have at it. I base my professional opinion on test data and facts that can be verified by independent testing labs. Tesla has none of that and cannot have that for at least 5 years if they even allow their product to be tested. Right now all you got is promises for an over priced product.

[Ben25]

Sounds like GMP will have them in October and be offering them to customers with an incentive and financing for peak load management.

[RedDenver]

It is too soon to celebrate. The real "life cycle" and final costs are still in a grey area. Maybe after a year of actual real life usage their system can be tweaked to provide the desired energy storage people so want now at a cost that is competitive with the grid.

I agree. I'll let the early adopters find out if the hype is real or not.

[SunEagle]

I agree that's where it is right now.

But $3000 for 2 kW (3 kW peak) and 7 kWh for daily cycling with a 10 year warranty looks like it could be competitive for off-grid. That's $9000 for a 21 kWh system and $12000 for a 28 kWh system, and roughly 3500 cycles if it lasts 10 years. There's not enough information yet to really do an analysis though. And the inverter, charge controller, etc. have yet to be disclosed.

It is too soon to celebrate. The real "life cycle" and final costs are still in a grey area. Maybe after a year of actual real life usage their system can be tweaked to provide the desired energy storage people so want now at a cost that is competitive with the grid.

[RedDenver]

Not for solar. It is for peak shaving in Calaphonie land.

I agree that's where it is right now.

But $3000 for 2 kW (3 kW peak) and 7 kWh for daily cycling with a 10 year warranty looks like it could be competitive for off-grid. That's $9000 for a 21 kWh system and $12000 for a 28 kWh system, and roughly 3500 cycles if it lasts 10 years. There's not enough information yet to really do an analysis though. And the inverter, charge controller, etc. have yet to be disclosed.

[Sunking]

Not for solar. It is for peak shaving in Calaphonie land.

[SunEagle]

Wow, this is going to generate a lot of name calling as it goes against opinions many posts of the past.

The add looks good but it is still too soon to tell if it will be cost effective for home owners because they do not provide any data on cycle usage per DOD %.

It looks more likely something the Utility might use but again it will be based on the cost comparison of the existing battery "storage" systems that have installed against the new one from Tesla.

[Willy T]

Wow, this is going to generate a lot of name calling as it goes against opinions many posts of the past.

[Ben25]

Looks like the Solaredge inverter manages the Powerwall as well. And our power company (Green Mountain Power) is going to be using some of them. Should be interesting going forward.

http://www.teslamotors.com/presskit/teslaenergy