Tesla announces "Powerwall" batteries

[Sundetective]

Hi Sunking Tzu,

Aqueon Energy still my man - for a little while.

Perhaps they are like the gal in the window in Amsterdam
who ran out on the sidewalk saying
' I give you good position'.

By 2016 we will see what type of position they have put themselves in.
It's a mighty big game they wish to play.
At least it's not an EEStor deal where no one ever gets anything.

There IS a little taste of product here and there.

Amy could probably tell us a bit more - if she feel Likes it

Bill Blake

Bill, I think Sun King is taking some liberties, but my guess is that he is talking about this:

http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/news/2015/04/29/exclusive-aquion-energy-cuts-jobs-in-pittsburgh.html

Although it isn't a chapter 11 announcement, but it is never a good sign in the startup world when a company that has made 4 product changes since starting production a year ago, starts cutting people. All hat and no cattle indeed.

As for investors...these big money tycoons get bored with Vegas and play roulette with startups. Kleiner Perkins has been looking like degenerate OTB gamblers for the last decade:

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2013/05/07/a-humbled-kleiner-perkins-adjusts-its-strategy/

Fortunately for those guys, Sammy Gravano is not one of their investors.

[Sun Tzu]

Sunking,

Where did you here that Aquion is going bankrupt ?

I will admit that if some serious amounts of product don't materialize
soon those boys are going to begin to look like
All hat, no cattle.

However I thought that they were still at the 'raking in the millions'
stage with the investors.

Bill Blake

Bill, I think Sun King is taking some liberties, but my guess is that he is talking about this:

http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/news/2015/04/29/exclusive-aquion-energy-cuts-jobs-in-pittsburgh.html

Although it isn't a chapter 11 announcement, but it is never a good sign in the startup world when a company that has made 4 product changes since starting production a year ago, starts cutting people. All hat and no cattle indeed.

As for investors...these big money tycoons get bored with Vegas and play roulette with startups. Kleiner Perkins has been looking like degenerate OTB gamblers for the last decade:

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2013/05/07/a-humbled-kleiner-perkins-adjusts-its-strategy/

Fortunately for those guys, Sammy Gravano is not one of their investors.

[Sun Tzu]

Do any of you know what Tesla Warranty entails? I did not think so.

But we have an excellent track record from the EV division which has landed Tesla in court. The EV's batteries are warranted for 8 years or 100,000 miles. Sounds great don't it?

Well not until you make a claim as thousands have found out. All Tesla warranty implies is the battery will operate the vehicle. It makes no claims of capacity or performance. Many Tesla owners tested this in court to find out even if your EV only goes 10 miles after a charge, it still works and lost their case.

Tesla even admits to get the claimed mileage requires you to replace the battery every year or every 25K miles whichever comes first, but at your expense, not covered under warranty.

On the flip side Nissan is better as they warrant their battery to retain 80% capacity up to 5 years or 50K miles whichever comes first. So far it has costed them a forutne in warranty claims with the first 3 model years.

I know a lot of you want to believe it, but don't let your blind passion misguide you.

The DOT once required HEV's (EV's too but not sure) to report when their batteries reached 75% SOH. It was a fools requirement that did not take any consideration as to what effect that had on range or vehicle performance. They blindly assumed that the battery could no longer function well at 75% SOH. So instead of investigating real requirements, they 86'd it totally. Knowing that most people throw a perfectly good car away after 2 years...ummmm...see where I'm going with this?

Now transposing that the unregulated energy storage market, who is going to warranty capacity? The fine print will read something like, "You break you buy so sorry." At best some fork tongued grease ball in a fancy suit will promise some "guaranteed" throughput. Which might sound good to the uninformed, but will amount to your green delight battery putting out a third of the power it did the first year you bought it, all the while the manufacture will not honor the warranty because it is technically still providing energy. "Well you can still power your desk light can't you!?"

[Ben25]

Might as well just close the thread if you're gonna keep deleting posts that call you out... Try posting something useful every now and then...

[russ]

There aren't that many good forums on solar energy.

Poor baby! A true liberal - wants to have his cake and eat it too.

Makes me think of some of the protesting going on the past year - people can't understand why they get more attention from the police - even if they are the most likely offenders.

[DanKegel]

It is impossible to bully anyone when they have the option of changing channels/sites etc.

There aren't that many good forums on solar energy.

[russ]

How do the other moderators feel about this?

Is bullying ok in moderation?

Bullying? You are sick!

It is impossible to bully anyone when they have the option of changing channels/sites etc. That is possibly the most overworked phrase today by the loony left crowd.

[DanKegel]

Picking on fools is a fun sport.

How do the other moderators feel about this?

Is bullying ok in moderation?

[Willy T]

I thought picking on environmentalists and liberals was a favorite sport around here (even encouraged by moderators).

Just part of the name calling here, green clowns, idiot, hack, commies, dipwad, moron and many more. It's not a positive sign.

This shouldn't be much of a argument, Tesla's battery will either be successful or it'll disappear from the market. As far as the concept of time shifting power for anyone with a hybrid inverter with Generator / Grid Support is all ready doing it manually. All you have to do is set the grid support amps to 4 amps and anything above that the loads need are supplied from the Inverter battery bank.

[russ]

I thought picking on environmentalists and liberals was a favorite sport around here (even encouraged by moderators).

Picking on fools is a fun sport.

[DanKegel]

Don't upset the green clowns Sunking - they whine and cry all day!

I thought picking on environmentalists and liberals was a favorite sport around here (even encouraged by moderators).

[Sundetective]

How can you possible know it has 10 year life? It has not ever been tested or even one unit sold. Aquion made that claim and are going bankrupt.

There are currently batteries on the market that outperform the Tesla vaporware battery that have a track record with 5 years of continuous testing since late 2009. To date over 2500 cycles to 80% DOD and still counting using IEC 61427 the most punishing battery test protocol devised made specifically for Solar and energy storage for 30% less cost. It is no contest. Tesla has vaporware and others have 80 year track record and independent testing confirms rock solid results.

I am all for Lithium battery technology and have been following it closely for 10 years as a professional. If you want to believe hype have at it. I base my professional opinion on test data and facts that can be verified by independent testing labs. Tesla has none of that and cannot have that for at least 5 years if they even allow their product to be tested. Right now all you got is promises for an over priced product.

Sunking,

Where did you hear that Aquion is going bankrupt ?

I will admit that if some serious amounts of product don't materialize
soon those boys are going to begin to look like
All hat, no cattle.

However I thought that they were still at the 'raking in the millions'
stage with the investors.

Bill Blake

[russ]

Don't upset the green clowns Sunking - they whine and cry all day!

[RedDenver]

How can you possible know it has 10 year life? It has not ever been tested or even one unit sold. Aquion made that claim and are going bankrupt.

There are currently batteries on the market that outperform the Tesla vaporware battery that have a track record with 5 years of continuous testing since late 2009. To date over 2500 cycles to 80% DOD and still counting using IEC 61427 the most punishing battery test protocol devised made specifically for Solar and energy storage for 30% less cost. It is no contest. Tesla has vaporware and others have 80 year track record and independent testing confirms rock solid results.

I am all for Lithium battery technology and have been following it closely for 10 years as a professional. If you want to believe hype have at it. I base my professional opinion on test data and facts that can be verified by independent testing labs. Tesla has none of that and cannot have that for at least 5 years if they even allow their product to be tested. Right now all you got is promises for an over priced product.

Read me post. I said "could be competitive". As in, if the battery performs as hyped, it would be competitive with the batteries you're touting. And expecting long-term performance in the real world is unrealistic for any new technology or product. You're jumping to conclusions here, as I'm not believing anything, but simply commenting on the possibility.

[SmartElectric]

5 cases involve revolve around owners Bricking their batteries. They lost the case

Ah, the Tesla Roadster battery brick issue. Solved a long time ago. Had nothing to do with the battery cells, had to do with the control electronics. Well that's 5 out of thousands you claim, so we'll have to agree to disagree that Tesla has a fundamental problem with battery quality, because the facts don't back that up.