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  • #31
    Originally posted by J.P.M. View Post
    Yea, and it's long ago founder and namesake had some pretty intimate ties to national socialism. Guess that makes all Porsche owners nazis huh ?
    No more so than it makes all Tesla owners "creepy cult followers" who are part of "the P.T. Barnum crowd."

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by jflorey2 View Post
      No more so than it makes all Tesla owners "creepy cult followers" who are part of "the P.T. Barnum crowd."
      See the last sentence of my immediate prior post.

      Respectfully,

      Comment


      • #33
        I respect [USER="12264"]SunEagle[/USER] 's suggestion that most of the last few pages are off topic. [USER="54780"]malba2366[/USER] has enough opinions about one vendor, so he can now decide who to choose.
        Last edited by Ampster; 05-06-2019, 03:34 PM.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by J.P.M. View Post
          BTW, as long as you've dragged this off topic, if/when I do get a Taycan, I'll write a check for it from the account that has the proceeds from buying 1,000 Sh. of Tesla in 2011 @ ~ $23/sh and selling ~ ~ ~158/sh in 2013 and not lose any sleep over it. I think Tesla was a good investment at the time. Not so much any more. I'm only pissed that I chickened out and bailed at 158. It's just business, but maybe a bit ironic that I'd use the profits to buy what might be considered a Tesla killer - don'tca think ?

          Do you always invest in companies which you think are run by conmen and frauds? Also, the corporate mission of Tesla is to accelerate the adoption of electric vehicles and by buying a Taycan, you would furthering their mission.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by funguy11 View Post


            Do you always invest in companies which you think are run by conmen and frauds?
            Wake up and smell the coffee.

            Since you seem interested, given who's running most outfits listed on any stock exchange, which is how I invest these days, it's kind of hard to avoid outfits run by con men. Besides, like Michael Corleone said "it's just business". If I don't, someone else will, and I hate wasting an opportunity by leaving money on the table when I think I spot it. Win some. Lose some. But if you're concerned, I do manage to sleep at night.

            Musk has the advantage these days over most of the other con men in that he's got a cult following who buy his cars and his lies based on emotion and not logic, maybe a bit like those who followed Jim Jones or David Koresh, or more likely Bernie Madoff, with many - but by no means all of the Musk disciples on the west coast and in large enough numbers to sustain his house of cards for what's probably a bit longer than others would be able to do.

            Musk is running something of a con driven by his ego. Now an ego is a fine thing to have, and can accomplish a lot for the common good, and sometimes the methods to reach a goal ain't pretty or socially acceptable as often happens in business, but what Musk is doing is little more than feeding his ego and selling a bill of goods and B.S. to do it while building cars under tents and keeping the state of NY from fining him ~ $41 million for not meeting the terms of the deal he conned them into several years ago to build him a still mostly empty PV panel factory in Buffalo.

            One possible moderating factor might be that most of those he's bilking probably are the more well heeled. Or, they may be smart enough to ride his wave and know when to bail.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by malba2366 View Post
              After recent price drops (which the local companies I called won't even come close to) of $2.65/watt before all incentives, is it worth considering Tesla Energy for solar panel installation? Does anyone have recent experience?

              I know Solarcity has horrible reviews, but from reading them a lot of them seem to have to do with leasing "scams" and misleading sales pitches. With their new sales model all of that element appears to have been removed from the process.
              I have been thinking of Tesla too, but based on negative reviews, I might go with more expensive but better rated solar installer.

              I think Elon Musk has done a great job of pushing the world towards electric car and some meaningful advancements in spacex, but solar seems to be not that exciting to him. I am worried that if there is a problem with installation or future repair, the downtime and hassle will be much more as it looks like most of the work is done by third party. There is not even a direct number to call regarding installation questions on the website, can't imagine when they have to be contacted when something isn't working.

              Following is the response I got from a Tesla rep, in case some want to take the risk, hoping nothing goes wrong.

              1) What brand and kind of solar panels are these? We use Q.Peak Duo Blk-G5/SC 315 made by Hanwha

              2) What kind of inverter be used? We use Delta String Inverters

              3) Where can I find more information regarding the warranties? The warranties are written in our contract. But our Panels are covered for 25 years, the installation work is 20 years. The inverter is 10 years and our Powerwall is 10 years

              4) Is there a local contact person, which I can contact when there is an issue with the solar panels? We do have a dedicated Tech Support team that can troubleshot your system through the phone, if you have issues where someone would need to come to the home, the Tech Support team would coordinate with the local crews to service your system.

              5) If there's an issue such as roof leak or non functioning solar panel, how fast do they usually get fixed? A roof leak is an emergency, because the more it leaks the more damage will be done so we will address it as soon as possible. As far as a nonfunctioning panel, it depends on your area, you would want to report the issue as soon as possible and our customer care team would get you scheduled with the next available appointment.

              6) How many panels would be there for the 7.5 kW you proposed? Since we last spoke we launched a new configurator and a new process which I will explain below these questions. You will see that the old one that I had sent you is no longer active. This new configurator does reflect our new pricing and you will notice we now offer set system sizes rather than a customer system. Here are the system sizes below
              1 System = 14 Panels
              2 Systems = 26 Panels
              3 Systems = 39 Panels
              4 Systems = 52 Panels


              7) Are the installers certified? All of our installers are certified to install roof top mounted solar

              8) We would have to upgrade the main electric circuit to 200 A, When would be an estimate for that be given for us to make the decision? When we come out we can provide a recommendation, we wouldn't handle the panel upgrade we would use a 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] party contractor for this particular part of the job, but we'll provide a recommendation of what you'll need and the cost and you can either go with that or if you're able to find someone else that can do that work prior to install whichever works best for you.

              9) Would Tesla get the permits from the town and get inspected and closed after the work is done? As soon as you sign your final contract we pull permits to install and also send for utility approval as well

              Below are the instructions on how to view the new configurator and how to move forward in placing your order.

              The next steps in placing your order are:

              1. Please open this link to reach the configurator https://www.tesla.com/energy/design?...ion_eid=119379

              2. Once the configurator is open, please open the "Size Guide" and ensure your location is the correct State you live in. Then choose a system size that you feel would cover your electric needs. (Please note that our Design Team will still look into your electric usage and provide a better recommendation if needed.)

              (Tip on choosing the correct system size, I would recommend choosing a system that generates enough electric that covers your current average bill $$$ amount)


              3. Click next and fill out the information that applies to place your order.

              4. Once your order is placed, please log in or create a Tesla account.

              5. Login to your Tesla account and complete the steps for your Home Assessment

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by teijus View Post

                I have been thinking of Tesla too, but based on negative reviews, I might go with more expensive but better rated solar installer.

                I think Elon Musk has done a great job of pushing the world towards electric car and some meaningful advancements in spacex, but solar seems to be not that exciting to him. I am worried that if there is a problem with installation or future repair, the downtime and hassle will be much more as it looks like most of the work is done by third party. There is not even a direct number to call regarding installation questions on the website, can't imagine when they have to be contacted when something isn't working.

                Following is the response I got from a Tesla rep, in case some want to take the risk, hoping nothing goes wrong.

                1) What brand and kind of solar panels are these? We use Q.Peak Duo Blk-G5/SC 315 made by Hanwha

                2) What kind of inverter be used? We use Delta String Inverters

                3) Where can I find more information regarding the warranties? The warranties are written in our contract. But our Panels are covered for 25 years, the installation work is 20 years. The inverter is 10 years and our Powerwall is 10 years

                4) Is there a local contact person, which I can contact when there is an issue with the solar panels? We do have a dedicated Tech Support team that can troubleshot your system through the phone, if you have issues where someone would need to come to the home, the Tech Support team would coordinate with the local crews to service your system.

                5) If there's an issue such as roof leak or non functioning solar panel, how fast do they usually get fixed? A roof leak is an emergency, because the more it leaks the more damage will be done so we will address it as soon as possible. As far as a nonfunctioning panel, it depends on your area, you would want to report the issue as soon as possible and our customer care team would get you scheduled with the next available appointment.

                6) How many panels would be there for the 7.5 kW you proposed? Since we last spoke we launched a new configurator and a new process which I will explain below these questions. You will see that the old one that I had sent you is no longer active. This new configurator does reflect our new pricing and you will notice we now offer set system sizes rather than a customer system. Here are the system sizes below
                1 System = 14 Panels
                2 Systems = 26 Panels
                3 Systems = 39 Panels
                4 Systems = 52 Panels


                7) Are the installers certified? All of our installers are certified to install roof top mounted solar

                8) We would have to upgrade the main electric circuit to 200 A, When would be an estimate for that be given for us to make the decision? When we come out we can provide a recommendation, we wouldn't handle the panel upgrade we would use a 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] party contractor for this particular part of the job, but we'll provide a recommendation of what you'll need and the cost and you can either go with that or if you're able to find someone else that can do that work prior to install whichever works best for you.

                9) Would Tesla get the permits from the town and get inspected and closed after the work is done? As soon as you sign your final contract we pull permits to install and also send for utility approval as well

                Below are the instructions on how to view the new configurator and how to move forward in placing your order.

                The next steps in placing your order are:

                1. Please open this link to reach the configurator https://www.tesla.com/energy/design?...ion_eid=119379

                2. Once the configurator is open, please open the "Size Guide" and ensure your location is the correct State you live in. Then choose a system size that you feel would cover your electric needs. (Please note that our Design Team will still look into your electric usage and provide a better recommendation if needed.)

                (Tip on choosing the correct system size, I would recommend choosing a system that generates enough electric that covers your current average bill $$$ amount)


                3. Click next and fill out the information that applies to place your order.

                4. Once your order is placed, please log in or create a Tesla account.

                5. Login to your Tesla account and complete the steps for your Home Assessment
                How much is the quote you are going with?

                Comment


                • #38
                  Teijus:

                  I believe you are being very wise to be very skeptical of Tesla as a PV contractor, and wiser still by recognizing buying capital goods solely on the basis of initial price alone is the errand and logic of a fool.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by funguy11 View Post

                    How much is the quote you are going with?
                    $22K for 6.5 kW

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by teijus View Post

                      $22K for 6.5 kW
                      $3.38/STC W is a long way from the $2.65 to ~ $2.85/STC W before fed. tax credit as seen, depending on the all over the place pricing that's all over the media these days.

                      Does the price you were quoted include a battery ?

                      What size system do you actually want ?

                      How does all the sizing referenced by Tesla in response to your question # 6 that implies selling systems in 4 STC kW increments relate to a 6.5 STC kW system ?

                      While buying solely on the basis of low buck alone is foolhardy, I'd think you could find a lot better local vendor to meet that $3.38/STC W price.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by J.P.M. View Post

                        $3.38/STC W is a long way from the $2.65 to ~ $2.85/STC W before fed. tax credit as seen, depending on the all over the place pricing that's all over the media these days.

                        Does the price you were quoted include a battery ?

                        What size system do you actually want ?

                        How does all the sizing referenced by Tesla in response to your question # 6 that implies selling systems in 4 STC kW increments relate to a 6.5 STC kW system ?

                        While buying solely on the basis of low buck alone is foolhardy, I'd think you could find a lot better local vendor to meet that $3.38/STC W price.
                        $22K for 6.5 kW is from a local vendor includes the standard solar edge inverter, installation, etc on LG solar panel. I'll most likely go for a little more kW, as in 3-5 years I might consider EV.

                        If I had the same confidence I have on the local vendor, I would have consider Tesla to save some $. Tesla quotes $22K for 8kW in MA.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by teijus View Post

                          $22K for 6.5 kW is from a local vendor includes the standard solar edge inverter, installation, etc on LG solar panel. I'll most likely go for a little more kW, as in 3-5 years I might consider EV.

                          If I had the same confidence I have on the local vendor, I would have consider Tesla to save some $. Tesla quotes $22K for 8kW in MA.
                          Apologies. I thought the $22K and sizing was from Tesla.

                          Still, $3.38 from a local vendor is still better than much of anything from Tesla, even if free. From what I've seen them do to folks, I wouldn't want them on or even near my property.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by J.P.M. View Post

                            Apologies. I thought the $22K and sizing was from Tesla.

                            Still, $3.38 from a local vendor is still better than much of anything from Tesla, even if free. From what I've seen them do to folks, I wouldn't want them on or even near my property.
                            Tesla uses a lot of local installers to help with their projects. I know people that recently had Tesla install solar panels and they were extremely satisfied with the price and quality of installation. They are also one of the few bigger installers right now to give a good price right off the bat and not have to negotiate from $5 a watt to $2.80 a watt.

                            Most of the bad reviews come from the old solar city model of solar leases and having liens on your property. The new model is to sell the system and not do the lease structure anymore. If I was given a choice of $3.38 per watt from a local vendor and $2.75 per watt from Tesla, the decision would be easy. BTW, customer service is way better with Tesla these days. I called Tesla about my Model S key fob and within two hours a ranger called me up to schedule an appointment. Tesla has answered ever single one of my emails in a timely matter and I would feel comfortable with a Tesla Energy installation right now. However, I would still go with a few local companies because they are cheaper and offer free panel cleanings for life. The company that installed my panels also contracts with Tesla, so I would have received the same installation regardless.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by teijus View Post

                              I have been thinking of Tesla too, but based on negative reviews, I might go with more expensive but better rated solar installer.

                              I think Elon Musk has done a great job of pushing the world towards electric car and some meaningful advancements in spacex, but solar seems to be not that exciting to him. I am worried that if there is a problem with installation or future repair, the downtime and hassle will be much more as it looks like most of the work is done by third party. There is not even a direct number to call regarding installation questions on the website, can't imagine when they have to be contacted when something isn't working.

                              ..............
                              The next steps in placing your order are:

                              1. Please open this link to reach the configurator......
                              2. Once the configurator is open, please open the "Size Guide" ,,,,,,,,
                              3. Click next and fill out the information that applies to place your order.
                              4. Once your order is placed, please log in or create a Tesla account.
                              5. Login to your Tesla account and complete the steps for your Home Assessment
                              I am a Tesla Fanboy but I think you made a good decision. I think Tesla's strength is in battery technology and EV motor technology. I think Tesla's purchase of Solar City was partly to bail out his cousins and partly to acquire a marketing team to promote his Powerwalls. I think the PV Solar business has become commoditized and I think local installers like you found can give a good value. You may want to ask them what the cost would be for a 25 year Inverter warranty from Solaredge?. That is what my installer did 18 months ago. I wouldn't have minded if I had to do the above to configure my system. It might have avoided me getting a system with an AC to DC ratio of 1.53 to 1


                              I just ordered a Model 3 and I like that a lot of the steps in the purchase process that are online. I was interested in a Kia Niro or Hyundai Kona but the outrageous dealer markups were a turn off. I also have become accustomed to the constant improvements that I get even with a 3 1/2 year old Model X via online updates. The big screen for navigation is also useful even in familiar areas because of the the opportunity to take a side road or an alternate route. I have plenty of solar capacity and other than trips I charge at home which is very convenient. The only thing I miss about gas stations is the window washing apparatus but for the money I save I bought a window washing kit that stows nicely in the frunk and that is what I do when Supercharging on a trip.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Ampster View Post
                                I am a Tesla Fanboy but I think you made a good decision. I think Tesla's strength is in battery technology and EV motor technology. I think Tesla's purchase of Solar City was partly to bail out his cousins and partly to acquire a marketing team to promote his Powerwalls. I think the PV Solar business has become commoditized and I think local installers like you found can give a good value. You may want to ask them what the cost would be for a 25 year Inverter warranty from Solaredge?. That is what my installer did 18 months ago. I wouldn't have minded if I had to do the above to configure my system. It might have avoided me getting a system with an AC to DC ratio of 1.53 to 1


                                I just ordered a Model 3 and I like that a lot of the steps in the purchase process that are online. I was interested in a Kia Niro or Hyundai Kona but the outrageous dealer markups were a turn off. I also have become accustomed to the constant improvements that I get even with a 3 1/2 year old Model X via online updates. The big screen for navigation is also useful even in familiar areas because of the the opportunity to take a side road or an alternate route. I have plenty of solar capacity and other than trips I charge at home which is very convenient. The only thing I miss about gas stations is the window washing apparatus but for the money I save I bought a window washing kit that stows nicely in the frunk and that is what I do when Supercharging on a trip.
                                A 23% premium is pretty large to pay for a local installer. If something goes wrong you have extra money to pay for bad work from a national installer. At the very least, I would try to get other quotes and try to talk a preferred installer down with my Tesla quote.

                                Comment

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