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  • #76
    Originally posted by J.P.M. View Post

    So if you hate it, don't engage in it. Takes at least two to argue.

    Some folks think what they perceive as the limited range of EV's as well as the (perhaps) self induced range anxiety that comes with current lower fueling point distribution density compared to the near ubiquitous ICE fuel stations reduces the desirability and practicality of EV use for more than local (say maybe 100 mile or so) trips.

    For those of us who are not dazzling urbanites, or have not yet learned how to or are unable to tie it in a knot for more range between piss calls, or are unaware of the uses of trucker bombs such things may be more of a consideration.

    But seriously, my guess is range anxiety will decrease as EV ranges increase, charging locations increase in number and charging times drop to 5 minutes or so and the whole issue devolves to the practical and virtual equivalent of fueling an ICE vehicle.

    Everyone has their goals, perceptions of what's a PITA, and their own priorities and opinions, and everyone/s situation is different.
    I meant I didn't like the argument of the driving 800 miles a day, not arguing I hear that over and over again, and that is just a silly argument IMO. If you can install a level 2 charger at your house or have reliable access to one, driving an EV in California will actually save you time fueling over the year. There has been calculations done on that. Spending 5 to 10 minutes at a gas station every time you fuel or just plugging in at home with the occasional long trip with fast charging. In the long run an EV will save you time. Now an EV is not practical if you live in an apartment or can't install a level 2 charger. I didn't even mention maintenance. The Model 3 doesn't need maintenance at all except for rotation of tires and cabin air filter for at least 100,000 miles.

    The cost is the big thing against EV's. I spend $35,000 on a used Model S, yup used... It is a huge expense, but I love it. I never had a car perform like this and at 5000 lbs it is also the safest car I have ever driven. It is a luxury car and I am fortunate to be able to afford it. If you have the mechanical knowledge a used ICE vehicle will save you a ton of money. However, in my area you would have to be silly not to buy an EV like a Chevy Bolt if you bought a new car and have level 2 charging capability. You can get the Bolt in my area for about $15,000 new and will save lots of money in fueling and maintenance. The Bolt would basically be a free car if you got 300,000 miles on it with fuel savings at that cost. It is a scary thing buying an EV though and I think the public needs to be educated. I feel sorry for people buying their first EV at a dealership and getting home and are shocked it takes 50 hours to charge on a 120 Volt plug.

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    • #77
      Originally posted by Ampster View Post

      Last month my wife and I drove from Northern California to Tennessee and back. One day we easily drove 800 miles. The car did quite well. It all depends on your perspective. I assume you don't own an EV?
      I'm in a mountainous rural area, off grid. 1400' elevation change to the 3 towns nearby. no EV for me, and sure not going to pull a trailer of hay up the hill from the feed store with one.

      Our "town" recently installed 4 EV chargers as part of some sort of grant. Within a week, the cords had been stolen for copper scrap.

      Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
      || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
      || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

      solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
      gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

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      • #78
        Originally posted by Mike90250 View Post

        I'm in a mountainous rural area, off grid. 1400' elevation change to the 3 towns nearby. no EV for me, and sure not going to pull a trailer of hay up the hill from the feed store with one.

        Our "town" recently installed 4 EV chargers as part of some sort of grant. Within a week, the cords had been stolen for copper scrap.
        There aren't any charging stations within 20 miles of my house and most of them are South towards the Tampa Bay area which I seldom travel to.

        It all comes down to the logistics of where you live and how far you want to go that makes an EV worthwhile. Oh I just filled up my Tundra at a Shell gas station for $2.42/ gal. Not the cheapest but still much less then gas in CA.

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        • #79
          Originally posted by Mike90250 View Post

          I'm in a mountainous rural area, off grid. 1400' elevation change to the 3 towns nearby. no EV for me, and sure not going to pull a trailer of hay up the hill from the feed store with one.

          Our "town" recently installed 4 EV chargers as part of some sort of grant. Within a week, the cords had been stolen for copper scrap.
          These ain't your daddy's EVs....

          https://www.rivian.com

          - 400 Mile Range
          - 750HP
          - 11,000# towing capacity
          > 10,000 ft-lbs of torque
          - 0-60 in ~3s


          Originally posted by SunEagle View Post

          There aren't any charging stations within 20 miles of my house and most of them are South towards the Tampa Bay area which I seldom travel to.
          The closest charging station to my house is ~70 miles away. Even if there was one closer I wouldn't use it.... I charge at home. My driveway is my charging station.
          Last edited by nwdiver; 06-02-2019, 03:46 PM.

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          • #80
            There are more issues. To be competitive here they need to be front wheel drive, AWD is
            even better. Extreme cold (and heat) tend to steal range. I suppose the heater is a pure
            resistive device, they need to upgrade to the 410A refrigerant technology as used for very
            efficient heating and cooling in my mini splits. Bruce Roe

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by bcroe View Post
              There are more issues. To be competitive here they need to be front wheel drive, AWD is
              even better. Extreme cold (and heat) tend to steal range. I suppose the heater is a pure
              resistive device, they need to upgrade to the 410A refrigerant technology as used for very
              efficient heating and cooling in my mini splits. Bruce Roe
              Most EVs are now AWD (because of Tesla); Unlike ICE there's actually a slight efficiency advantage to AWD since the drive units are single speed. With AWD the front and rear drive units can be geared differently effectively making the car 2 speed. More power to lower gear for better starting torque and more power to higher gear for slightly better efficiency on the highway.

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by bcroe View Post
                There are more issues. To be competitive here they need to be front wheel drive, AWD is
                even better. Extreme cold (and heat) tend to steal range. I suppose the heater is a pure
                resistive device, they need to upgrade to the 410A refrigerant technology as used for very
                efficient heating and cooling in my mini splits. Bruce Roe
                Rear wheel drive is not an issue anymore in snow, especially with traction control and good snow tires. This is not 20 years ago where I would agree with you. Another thing is you can't say an EV is like an ICE car. EV's don't have their weight over the front tire because they don't have an engine. The weight of an EV is distributed throughout the car. RWD Tesla's perform better than any FWD car without traction control in the snow. Also my Chevy Bolt is FWD, so there goes your argument. BTW, the Model 3 has an AWD version.

                Extreme heat hardly affects range, air conditioning is not the power drain that heating the car is. Many EV's are starting to incorporate heat pumps with resistive heating. You can buy those right now.

                The only issue you stated that is a negative is the heating of an EV. If I lived in an extreme cold climate I would definitely not buy an EV.

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by discodanman45 View Post

                  The only issue you stated that is a negative is the heating of an EV. If I lived in an extreme cold climate I would definitely not buy an EV.
                  Pre-Heating solves most of those issues. I would qualify that as 'If I lived in an extreme cold environment AND had no place to charge at home or work....'

                  I mean.... the country with the highest percentage of EV sales is Norway. Not exactly known for their mild winters....

                  https://electrek.co/2019/04/01/tesla...es-new-record/

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by nwdiver View Post

                    Pre-Heating solves most of those issues. I would qualify that as 'If I lived in an extreme cold environment AND had no place to charge at home or work....'
                    Obviously you were not along on my last 1100 mile return from NH to mid IL in Jan, when
                    I90 was closed. Bruce Roe

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by bcroe View Post

                      Obviously you were not along on my last 1100 mile return from NH to mid IL in Jan, when
                      I90 was closed. Bruce Roe
                      Sometimes I forget that Americans aren't as clever as Norwegians

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                      • #86
                        Originally posted by nwdiver View Post

                        Sometimes I forget that Americans aren't as clever as Norwegians
                        OOFDA !!! Some folks in places like Minnesota might disagree with you.

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                        • #87
                          Originally posted by nwdiver View Post

                          Pre-Heating solves most of those issues. I would qualify that as 'If I lived in an extreme cold environment AND had no place to charge at home or work....'

                          I mean.... the country with the highest percentage of EV sales is Norway. Not exactly known for their mild winters....

                          https://electrek.co/2019/04/01/tesla...es-new-record/
                          In Norway electric vehicles are now outselling gasoline powered cars.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by funguy11 View Post

                            In Norway electric vehicles are now outselling gasoline powered cars.
                            Does that ratio come close to what people in CA are doing?

                            Why does everyone think that comparing purchase patterns of another small country to the entire US is accurate?

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by SunEagle View Post

                              Does that ratio come close to what people in CA are doing?

                              Why does everyone think that comparing purchase patterns of another small country to the entire US is accurate?
                              No, I dont think California comes close to what the trends are in Norway. I think the point of the Norway example was about EVs in a cold weather environment.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Ampster View Post

                                No, I dont think California comes close to what the trends are in Norway. I think the point of the Norway example was about EVs in a cold weather environment.
                                I understand the relevance to a cold climate and EV's. I just wonder why people keep trying to make comparisons between apples and oranges.

                                EV's just do not make economic sense everywhere.
                                Last edited by SunEagle; 06-03-2019, 08:43 AM. Reason: added last sentence

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