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  • #46
    A $35,000 Model 3 in my area in California is quite a good deal. It will cost right about $40,000 after taxes/registration/loan interest. However in my area in California there is $6000 in rebates plus the remaining $3750 federal credit. This is comparable to a new $26,000 car right now. If you are interested in performance, try to name another sedan that can do a 5.6s 0 to 60 time and has the ability to be upgraded in the future to have self-driving features. Also with California gas prices, the Model 3 is like driving a car that gets 100 mpg. So in California you can buy a car that does 0 to 60 in 5.6 seconds and gets 100 mpg for $26,000. How much would people pay for an ICE car that does the same thing?

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    • #47
      Originally posted by discodanman45 View Post
      A $35,000 Model 3 in my area in California is quite a good deal. It will cost right about $40,000 after taxes/registration/loan interest. However in my area in California there is $6000 in rebates plus the remaining $3750 federal credit. This is comparable to a new $26,000 car right now. If you are interested in performance, try to name another sedan that can do a 5.6s 0 to 60 time and has the ability to be upgraded in the future to have self-driving features. Also with California gas prices, the Model 3 is like driving a car that gets 100 mpg. So in California you can buy a car that does 0 to 60 in 5.6 seconds and gets 100 mpg for $26,000. How much would people pay for an ICE car that does the same thing?
      Disco, EV's definitely are advantageous to purchase now. You sound like you're very knowledgeable, about the Tesla's. My niece is a salesperson for Tesla in the Bay Area I'll have to ask her if she knows you

      Those who do, do it!

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      • #48
        Originally posted by discodanman45 View Post
        A $35,000 Model 3 in my area in California is quite a good deal. It will cost right about $40,000 after taxes/registration/loan interest. However in my area in California there is $6000 in rebates plus the remaining $3750 federal credit. This is comparable to a new $26,000 car right now. If you are interested in performance, try to name another sedan that can do a 5.6s 0 to 60 time and has the ability to be upgraded in the future to have self-driving features. Also with California gas prices, the Model 3 is like driving a car that gets 100 mpg. So in California you can buy a car that does 0 to 60 in 5.6 seconds and gets 100 mpg for $26,000. How much would people pay for an ICE car that does the same thing?
        Unfortunately we do not have any State rebates here in Florida so the cost will be high. Also by the time I get around to purchasing an EV the Federal credit may no longer exist due to the MFG already selling the amount the FED's would give the rebate on.

        I would research to see if any Tesla Model 3 will still get the rebate in the future due to the number already sold or reserved for sale.

        Oh and gas is still less then $2.50/gal here so that is not a motivation for me to get rid of my ICE vehicles yet.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by discodanman45 View Post
          A $35,000 Model 3 in my area in California is quite a good deal. It will cost right about $40,000 after taxes/registration/loan interest. However in my area in California there is $6000 in rebates plus the remaining $3750 federal credit. This is comparable to a new $26,000 car right now. If you are interested in performance, try to name another sedan that can do a 5.6s 0 to 60 time and has the ability to be upgraded in the future to have self-driving features. Also with California gas prices, the Model 3 is like driving a car that gets 100 mpg. So in California you can buy a car that does 0 to 60 in 5.6 seconds and gets 100 mpg for $26,000. How much would people pay for an ICE car that does the same thing?
          The 0-60 is quite impressive, not a surprise to some of us. Practically speaking how many drivers actually
          do that? But if that is RWD, it will not do well these days here in the snow and ice. AWD is the way to go,
          FWD is next best. I paid $4000 for my 77 Delta, 0-60 in 7.5 sec. Bruce Roe

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          • #50
            Originally posted by bcroe View Post

            The 0-60 is quite impressive, not a surprise to some of us. Practically speaking how many drivers actually
            do that? But if that is RWD, it will not do well these days here in the snow and ice. AWD is the way to go,
            FWD is next best. I paid $4000 for my 77 Delta, 0-60 in 7.5 sec. Bruce Roe
            The $35,000 Tesla is RWD, but they have an all wheel drive version for $47,000. However, we shouldn't say that an EV RWD drive car will perform poorly in the snow. Why does a FWD drive car perform better in the snow? Because it has the weight of the engine and transmission sitting above the driven wheels. I know that it is better to pull the car's weight instead of pushing, but the weight above the wheels is an advantage. A RWD EV isn't as bad as you think in the snow. Tesla EV's have a low center of gravity, evenly distributed weight, wide wheel base, linear power delivery and great traction control. Throw some good winter tires on a RWD Model 3 and it will do much better than you think. Saying that an EV RWD won't perform well because an ICE RWD car doesn't perform well is not a good comparison. These are completely different types of vehicles.

            Some people would even argue that today's RWD cars handle better in the snow because of traction and stability control. RWD is actually better going up a hill in snowy weather versus a FWD car. Snow tires are much more important today than AWD in the snow.

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            • #51
              Thank you all again. I was able to sign up for the 10 PM - 8 AM off peak at 13 cents/kWh to charge my EV (which is no longer available). The scary thing is the 2 PM - 8 PM summer on-peak rate of 51 (33 cents in winter) cents/kWh! The good thing is almost half of my solar panel production is after 1 PM so I can send SoCal Edison electricity and earn 51 cents/kWh credit.

              Tesla announced the $35k Model 3 availability yesterday. The have gone to a 100% on-line ordering process to reduce costs. I don't know what the delivery time is, but I think they are down to a month or so.

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              • #52
                My 12 month period has ended with SCE and I will get a $48 refund. You guys encouraged me (back in March) to switch to a TOU plan (TOU-D-A, in SCE terms) from a tiered plan and doing so has paid off in spades! I charge my Tesla at 13 cents/kWh at night and my panels earn me about 48 cent/kWh when exporting electricity after 2 PM. I have a full year of charging the Tesla in this 12 month period. The summer months will stack up enough cash reserves to make the next 12 month period more lucrative. I think I would have had to pay at the end of the 12 month period if I had not switched. I can't believe I have an EV and pay nothing for electrons to drive it! What a smoking deal! Thank you, thank you, thank you!

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Ward L View Post
                  My 12 month period has ended with SCE and I will get a $48 refund. You guys encouraged me (back in March) to switch to a TOU plan (TOU-D-A, in SCE terms) from a tiered plan and doing so has paid off in spades! I charge my Tesla at 13 cents/kWh at night and my panels earn me about 48 cent/kWh when exporting electricity after 2 PM. I have a full year of charging the Tesla in this 12 month period. The summer months will stack up enough cash reserves to make the next 12 month period more lucrative. I think I would have had to pay at the end of the 12 month period if I had not switched. I can't believe I have an EV and pay nothing for electrons to drive it! What a smoking deal! Thank you, thank you, thank you!

                  What do you think of your Tesla?

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                  • #54
                    We both love it. I like the streaming music, touch screen, power/performance, over the air software updates, convince and cost of recharging at home, no more oil changes, no keys to unlock. It doesn't shift gears as it accelerates. It is just so smooth. We were having trouble closing the console lid and kept pushing down on it and it would pop back up. After a few times a message pops up on the screen suggesting to gently close the lid. The autopilot is definitely oversold by Musk. They will need faster chips to do what he claims and he knows it. Basically the autopilot will work on a freeway, but not on city streets. You need white/yellow lines on both sides of your lane to stay in your lane. I don't trust autopilot and I think it is crazy Tesla releases beta versions for people to test at 70 MPH. The biggest downside is it is my wife's car and I miss it when I get in my truck. I plan to buy an electric truck ASAP. I think it is amazing we are living an automotive revolution from gasoline to electrons.

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Ward L View Post
                      We both love it. I like the streaming music, touch screen, power/performance, over the air software updates, convince and cost of recharging at home, no more oil changes, no keys to unlock. It doesn't shift gears as it accelerates. It is just so smooth. We were having trouble closing the console lid and kept pushing down on it and it would pop back up. After a few times a message pops up on the screen suggesting to gently close the lid. The autopilot is definitely oversold by Musk. They will need faster chips to do what he claims and he knows it. Basically the autopilot will work on a freeway, but not on city streets. You need white/yellow lines on both sides of your lane to stay in your lane. I don't trust autopilot and I think it is crazy Tesla releases beta versions for people to test at 70 MPH. The biggest downside is it is my wife's car and I miss it when I get in my truck. I plan to buy an electric truck ASAP. I think it is amazing we are living an automotive revolution from gasoline to electrons.
                      I am glad to here you are enjoying your Tesla. Tesla car owners are, on average, the most satisfied car owners in the world.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by funguy11 View Post

                        I am glad to here you are enjoying your Tesla. Tesla car owners are, on average, the most satisfied car owners in the world.
                        You could say we drink the Kool Aid. I looked at all the other EV options to replace the Fiat 500e that was coming off lease in two months and settled on a Model 3 with no major upgrades for $45k. We could have had the $35k model but wanted AutoPilot and a color upgrade. After rebates and credits in California it nets out at $33k. Very little operating costs and based on our 3 year experience with the Model X (80k miles) I think this car will be running well in 8 to 10 years.
                        Last edited by Ampster; 05-18-2019, 12:43 PM.

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Ampster View Post

                          You could say we drink the Kool Aid. I looked at all the other EV options to replace the Fiat 500e that was coming off lease in two months and settled on a Model 3 with no major upgrades for $45k. We could have had the $35k model but wanted AutoPilot and a color upgrade. After rebates and credits in California it nets out at $33k. Very little operating costs and based on our 3 year experience with the Model X (80k miles) I think this car will be running well in 8 to 10 years.
                          Right now there is no EV that can compete with Tesla. If you buy another EV you are compromising on something. I have a Chevy Bolt and have 56,000 miles on it. It is almost a perfect car but has two main flaws. The charging speed maxes at 40 kW and has tiny seats. Taking the Bolt on long trips is a PITA. The only negative with a Tesla is the service and that is much much better. My key fob stopped working and within a week a ranger came to my house and fixed it under warranty. They also just opened a service center in Fresno this week! I could get an appointment within 5 days. There are cars that have the performance of a Tesla like the iPace and eTron, but their efficiencies are horrible. The eTron has a range of 204 miles with a 95 kWh battery and the new Model S will have a range of 370 miles with a 100 kWh battery. The Model S is also about the same size and is faster... I don't think people have any clue how far Tesla is in the lead.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by discodanman45 View Post

                            Right now there is no EV that can compete with Tesla. If you buy another EV you are compromising on something. I have a Chevy Bolt and have 56,000 miles on it. It is almost a perfect car but has two main flaws. The charging speed maxes at 40 kW and has tiny seats. Taking the Bolt on long trips is a PITA. The only negative with a Tesla is the service and that is much much better. My key fob stopped working and within a week a ranger came to my house and fixed it under warranty. They also just opened a service center in Fresno this week! I could get an appointment within 5 days. There are cars that have the performance of a Tesla like the iPace and eTron, but their efficiencies are horrible. The eTron has a range of 204 miles with a 95 kWh battery and the new Model S will have a range of 370 miles with a 100 kWh battery. The Model S is also about the same size and is faster... I don't think people have any clue how far Tesla is in the lead.
                            All interesting points and some things mfgs. won't tell you about - like the practical need for a second (ICE) vehicle for probably some time into the future.

                            Two drawbacks for me on Tesla: Out the door actual prices and transparency, and some real concern that they may not be around in X years. As the real vehicle mfgs. gear up (Re: Volkswagen etc.), the competition will increase, and most/all of any perceived Tesla advantage will decrease. I'm not convinced Tesla has what it takes to survive. Seems like they have too much of a house of cards at this time.

                            I'd also have concerns about buying a vehicle from a company that needs to resort to building their product in a tent.

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by J.P.M. View Post
                              All interesting points and some things mfgs. won't tell you about - like the practical need for a second (ICE) vehicle for probably some time into the future.
                              That's true for low range EVs in locations with few chargers. With 300+ mile range EV's and a good number of chargers (i.e. as there are in CA) then you don't need the second vehicle.
                              As the real vehicle mfgs. gear up (Re: Volkswagen etc.), the competition will increase, and most/all of any perceived Tesla advantage will decrease.
                              Agreed there. The advantages of being the first will erode pretty quickly.

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by J.P.M. View Post

                                All interesting points and some things mfgs. won't tell you about - like the practical need for a second (ICE) vehicle for probably some time into the future.

                                Two drawbacks for me on Tesla: Out the door actual prices and transparency, and some real concern that they may not be around in X years. As the real vehicle mfgs. gear up (Re: Volkswagen etc.), the competition will increase, and most/all of any perceived Tesla advantage will decrease. I'm not convinced Tesla has what it takes to survive. Seems like they have too much of a house of cards at this time.

                                I'd also have concerns about buying a vehicle from a company that needs to resort to building their product in a tent.
                                Why is there a need for a second ICE vehicle??? I only have two EV's and drive more than 99% of the people on this forum. There are some places in the US without a local charging network, but that is quickly changing. I drive my Tesla from Chowchilla to San Diego twice a year and it is really no different than driving an ICE vehicle. Two 1 hour stops and I would do that anyways with that drive.

                                Tesla will be around, they have a name brand that is very valuable. They are so much more than a car company. They are a battery company, AI company, and develop the best electric motors. The biggest weakness for Tesla is their solar. Elon Musk should have never had bailed out his brother. They should have kept Solar City and its Tesla roof under a separate company umbrella. Here is the big thing about Tesla. Tesla has the brand name that the younger generation will strive to purchase. Whenever I drive my Tesla around kids get excited and want to see it. They have a built in market that will want to purchase their vehicles without any advertising.

                                Edit: Still waiting for the real vehicle mfgs to actually make a non-compliance car. Audi, Hyundai, Kia, etc... can't even secure enough batteries to make a few thousand cars. Tesla made a car in 2012 that is still better than any EV that is made today. Still waiting...

                                The tent thing is overblown. It is a sprung superstructure that many government and commercial ventures have been using for years. Tesla thought outside the box and that "tent" has been very successful for them.
                                https://www.sprung.com/
                                Last edited by discodanman45; 05-22-2019, 12:28 PM.

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