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  • #61
    Originally posted by discodanman45 View Post

    Why is there a need for a second ICE vehicle??? I only have two EV's and drive more than 99% of the people on this forum. There are some places in the US without a local charging network, but that is quickly changing. I drive my Tesla from Chowchilla to San Diego twice a year and it is really no different than driving an ICE vehicle. Two 1 hour stops and I would do that anyways with that drive.

    Tesla will be around, they have a name brand that is very valuable. They are so much more than a car company. They are a battery company, AI company, and develop the best electric motors. .......
    I agree. I have driven two EVs for six years although one of the has always been a compliance car that I leased because I could write it off in my LLC. After searching for one to replace a Fiat 500e, whose lease expires next month we settled on a Tesla Model 3 as the best value. I thought I knew all the technological advantages, but recently watched two segments of Autoline Afterhours featuring Sandy Monroe. That made me realize how far Tesla is ahead of the traditional automakers.

    As far as prices are concerned I initially configured the basic model at $36k but my spouse wanted the $1k blue color option and I wanted the $4.5 Auto Pilot..That brought the car to $41.5k which was still $5k cheaper than the Hyunda Kona or the Kia Niro. BTW, the car comes equipped with the full self driving hardware that I can upgrade at any time.

    Based on the experience of Tesloop which has over 200k miles on some of its cars I think my cars will be around for at least X years. I have been involved in corporate finance most of my life and know that it is difficult to predict the future but I think Tesla as a manufacturer will be around in some form or another well into the future. I dont think the solar business has much value but the Powerwalls and Powerpacks give them a lead in battery technology and scale that will be difficult to catch. As discodanman45 said they are as much a battery and software company as they are a car company.
    Last edited by Ampster; 05-22-2019, 01:07 PM.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Ampster
      As far as prices are concerned I initially configured the basic model at $36k but my spouse wanted the $1k blue color option and I wanted the $4.5 Auto Pilot..That brought the car to $41.5k which was still $5k cheaper than the Hyunda Kona or the Kia Niro. BTW, the car comes equipped with the full self driving hardware that I can upgrade at any time.
      I am wondering what the service situation is on the EVs. I hear talk about all the stuff they do not
      need, but that may not be the case when they pass 400,000 miles (as happens here). Just who
      can deal with them, for how much, and will even a minor accident total them?

      As for self driving, no thanks. Bruce Roe

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      • #63
        Originally posted by discodanman45 View Post

        Why is there a need for a second ICE vehicle??? I only have two EV's and drive more than 99% of the people on this forum. There are some places in the US without a local charging network, but that is quickly changing. I drive my Tesla from Chowchilla to San Diego twice a year and it is really no different than driving an ICE vehicle. Two 1 hour stops and I would do that anyways with that drive.

        Tesla will be around, they have a name brand that is very valuable. They are so much more than a car company. They are a battery company, AI company, and develop the best electric motors. The biggest weakness for Tesla is their solar. Elon Musk should have never had bailed out his brother. They should have kept Solar City and its Tesla roof under a separate company umbrella. Here is the big thing about Tesla. Tesla has the brand name that the younger generation will strive to purchase. Whenever I drive my Tesla around kids get excited and want to see it. They have a built in market that will want to purchase their vehicles without any advertising.

        Edit: Still waiting for the real vehicle mfgs to actually make a non-compliance car. Audi, Hyundai, Kia, etc... can't even secure enough batteries to make a few thousand cars. Tesla made a car in 2012 that is still better than any EV that is made today. Still waiting...

        The tent thing is overblown. It is a sprung superstructure that many government and commercial ventures have been using for years. Tesla thought outside the box and that "tent" has been very successful for them.
        https://www.sprung.com/
        I am confused. I am thinking about getting an EV, but JPM says I am going to need a second vehicle and I don't want to have a second vehicle. Who's right?

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        • #64
          Originally posted by funguy11 View Post

          I am confused. I am thinking about getting an EV, but JPM says I am going to need a second vehicle and I don't want to have a second vehicle. Who's right?
          Maybe. Do you ever drive on a trip for more than 2 or 3 hours ? EV's are great for local work and grocery runs, but for a vacation where you need to crank 800 miles a day, they don't do so well.. You could rent a ICE car, or have your own sitting around.
          Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
          || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
          || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

          solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
          gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

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          • #65
            Originally posted by funguy11 View Post

            I am confused. I am thinking about getting an EV, but JPM says I am going to need a second vehicle and I don't want to have a second vehicle. Who's right?
            If you have something like a Tesla Model 3 and live somewhere other than Northern North Dakota or middle-of-no-where SE Texas then you should do fine with one car. I've done multiple road trips with my Tesla from NM => WA. WA => CA => NM and NM=>SD. I personally find it more relaxing since you have scheduled ~20- 30 minute breaks built into your trip.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by nwdiver View Post

              If you have something like a Tesla Model 3 and live somewhere other than Northern North Dakota or middle-of-no-where SE Texas then you should do fine with one car. I've done multiple road trips with my Tesla from NM => WA. WA => CA => NM and NM=>SD. I personally find it more relaxing since you have scheduled ~20- 30 minute breaks built into your trip.
              Unfortunately some people do not want to add those 30 minute breaks into a trip. Also there is a chance of not finding an open charging port when you need to refill the battery.

              An EV is perfect for states that have the charging infrastructure or if the trips are less then a full charge. But if you need to get somewhere and it is not easy to rent a vehicle then a second long range model is probably a bit of insurance.

              Hopefully there will be more charging stations installed around the country as well as EV's with larger ranges. But IMO an EV is still not something I can afford or want for right now.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by SunEagle View Post

                Unfortunately some people do not want to add those 30 minute breaks into a trip. Also there is a chance of not finding an open charging port when you need to refill the battery.
                I've supercharged >100 times and I've never once had to wait to charge. It does happen in urban areas but it's very rare.

                I actually kept my Jetta TDI for a few months because I had the same concerns you do... but they proved to be completely unfounded.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by SunEagle View Post

                  Unfortunately some people do not want to add those 30 minute breaks into a trip. Also there is a chance of not finding an open charging port when you need to refill the battery.

                  An EV is perfect for states that have the charging infrastructure or if the trips are less then a full charge. But if you need to get somewhere and it is not easy to rent a vehicle then a second long range model is probably a bit of insurance.

                  Hopefully there will be more charging stations installed around the country as well as EV's with larger ranges. But IMO an EV is still not something I can afford or want for right now.
                  Do you own an EV SunEagle?

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by funguy11 View Post

                    Do you own an EV SunEagle?
                    As I indicated above, I do not own one now and do not see owning one in the near future. Of course my decision could change if the price of the EV's came down and the number of free charging ports in my area increased. For now it does not make sense for me to purchase an EV but it is something I could do in the future.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by SunEagle View Post

                      Unfortunately some people do not want to add those 30 minute breaks into a trip. Also there is a chance of not finding an open charging port when you need to refill the battery.
                      It all depends on where you are standing. I am 75 years old and have to pee every hour or two. A 30 minute break is not inconvenient for me when travelling? However most of the time I just plug in at night and the EV is full in the morning. That is much more convenient than finding a gas station. The subject of this thread which is about the economics, however the convenience of charging at home is also compelling for some.
                      Last edited by Ampster; 06-01-2019, 04:00 PM.

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Mike90250 View Post

                        Maybe. Do you ever drive on a trip for more than 2 or 3 hours ? EV's are great for local work and grocery runs, but for a vacation where you need to crank 800 miles a day, they don't do so well.. You could rent a ICE car, or have your own sitting around.
                        Last month my wife and I drove from Northern California to Tennessee and back. One day we easily drove 800 miles. The car did quite well. It all depends on your perspective. I assume you don't own an EV?

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Mike90250 View Post
                          Maybe. Do you ever drive on a trip for more than 2 or 3 hours ? EV's are great for local work and grocery runs, but for a vacation where you need to crank 800 miles a day, they don't do so well.
                          A Tesla Model 3 set a Cannonball Run record last year for EV's - 50 hours to cross the country. Unlikely that vacationers will need to make better time than that. (Our one attempt to cross the country quickly took 3 days in an ICE.)

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Mike90250 View Post

                            Maybe. Do you ever drive on a trip for more than 2 or 3 hours ? EV's are great for local work and grocery runs, but for a vacation where you need to crank 800 miles a day, they don't do so well.. You could rent a ICE car, or have your own sitting around.
                            I hate this argument. Who in their mind drives 800 miles a day on a regular basis? If I have to drive 800 miles in a day I will take something called a plane. I have two EV's and drive them about 50,000 miles a year. I think that is a tad better than local work and grocery runs. Not once since I had an EV I said to myself that I wish I had an ICE car. Most EV's these days can drive 2 or 3 hours on one charge. In California you also have to consider gas prices with electricity. My EV's cost me about $1800 a year in maintenance to drive 50,000 miles. Even a Prius at current gas prices would be over $5000 in gas and maintenance. The other thing is driving a Tesla is much funner to drive than a Prius. There is a reason why once people buy an EV that they don't want an ICE engine.

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by discodanman45 View Post

                              I hate this argument. Who in their mind drives 800 miles a day on a regular basis? If I have to drive 800 miles in a day I will take something called a plane. I have two EV's and drive them about 50,000 miles a year. I think that is a tad better than local work and grocery runs. Not once since I had an EV I said to myself that I wish I had an ICE car. Most EV's these days can drive 2 or 3 hours on one charge. In California you also have to consider gas prices with electricity. My EV's cost me about $1800 a year in maintenance to drive 50,000 miles. Even a Prius at current gas prices would be over $5000 in gas and maintenance. The other thing is driving a Tesla is much funner to drive than a Prius. There is a reason why once people buy an EV that they don't want an ICE engine.
                              EV is one answer, but not always the clear cut answer. For decades I drove 500 miles,
                              800 miles, 900 miles, 1100 miles, and even 1250 miles in a 24 hour period. From this
                              location I found that up to 500 miles is about break even time between driving and flying,
                              after all the parking, renting, loading, unloading, and so on. Money wise 2 or 4 people
                              can usually save big bucks. If you are carrying huge amounts of luggage (as I did), flying
                              is just about out of the question. My average speed was 66 mph conditions allowing.

                              Cost wise note my current driver cost me $2200 a couple decades ago, and maintenance
                              for this DIY is tiny beyond the tires, brakes, license, and ins all cars must pay. I have
                              another car I paid $4000 for, between them have driven nearly 400,000 miles. Bruce Roe
                              Last edited by bcroe; 06-01-2019, 02:56 PM.

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by discodanman45 View Post

                                I hate this argument. Who in their mind drives 800 miles a day on a regular basis? If I have to drive 800 miles in a day I will take something called a plane. I have two EV's and drive them about 50,000 miles a year. I think that is a tad better than local work and grocery runs. Not once since I had an EV I said to myself that I wish I had an ICE car. Most EV's these days can drive 2 or 3 hours on one charge. In California you also have to consider gas prices with electricity. My EV's cost me about $1800 a year in maintenance to drive 50,000 miles. Even a Prius at current gas prices would be over $5000 in gas and maintenance. The other thing is driving a Tesla is much funner to drive than a Prius. There is a reason why once people buy an EV that they don't want an ICE engine.
                                So if you hate it, don't engage in it. Takes at least two to argue.

                                Some folks think what they perceive as the limited range of EV's as well as the (perhaps) self induced range anxiety that comes with current lower fueling point distribution density compared to the near ubiquitous ICE fuel stations reduces the desirability and practicality of EV use for more than local (say maybe 100 mile or so) trips.

                                For those of us who are not dazzling urbanites, or have not yet learned how to or are unable to tie it in a knot for more range between piss calls, or are unaware of the uses of trucker bombs such things may be more of a consideration.

                                But seriously, my guess is range anxiety will decrease as EV ranges increase, charging locations increase in number and charging times drop to 5 minutes or so and the whole issue devolves to the practical and virtual equivalent of fueling an ICE vehicle.

                                Everyone has their goals, perceptions of what's a PITA, and their own priorities and opinions, and everyone/s situation is different.

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