Solar and EV's - Great Investment!

[jflorey2]

Maybe. Do you ever drive on a trip for more than 2 or 3 hours ? EV's are great for local work and grocery runs, but for a vacation where you need to crank 800 miles a day, they don't do so well.

A Tesla Model 3 set a Cannonball Run record last year for EV's - 50 hours to cross the country. Unlikely that vacationers will need to make better time than that. (Our one attempt to cross the country quickly took 3 days in an ICE.)

[Ampster]

Maybe. Do you ever drive on a trip for more than 2 or 3 hours ? EV's are great for local work and grocery runs, but for a vacation where you need to crank 800 miles a day, they don't do so well.. You could rent a ICE car, or have your own sitting around.

Last month my wife and I drove from Northern California to Tennessee and back. One day we easily drove 800 miles. The car did quite well. It all depends on your perspective. I assume you don't own an EV?

[Ampster]

Unfortunately some people do not want to add those 30 minute breaks into a trip. Also there is a chance of not finding an open charging port when you need to refill the battery.

It all depends on where you are standing. I am 75 years old and have to pee every hour or two. A 30 minute break is not inconvenient for me when travelling? However most of the time I just plug in at night and the EV is full in the morning. That is much more convenient than finding a gas station. The subject of this thread which is about the economics, however the convenience of charging at home is also compelling for some.

[SunEagle]

Do you own an EV SunEagle?

As I indicated above, I do not own one now and do not see owning one in the near future. Of course my decision could change if the price of the EV's came down and the number of free charging ports in my area increased. For now it does not make sense for me to purchase an EV but it is something I could do in the future.

[funguy11]

Unfortunately some people do not want to add those 30 minute breaks into a trip. Also there is a chance of not finding an open charging port when you need to refill the battery.

An EV is perfect for states that have the charging infrastructure or if the trips are less then a full charge. But if you need to get somewhere and it is not easy to rent a vehicle then a second long range model is probably a bit of insurance.

Hopefully there will be more charging stations installed around the country as well as EV's with larger ranges. But IMO an EV is still not something I can afford or want for right now.

Do you own an EV SunEagle?

[nwdiver]

Unfortunately some people do not want to add those 30 minute breaks into a trip. Also there is a chance of not finding an open charging port when you need to refill the battery.

I've supercharged >100 times and I've never once had to wait to charge. It does happen in urban areas but it's very rare.

I actually kept my Jetta TDI for a few months because I had the same concerns you do... but they proved to be completely unfounded.

[SunEagle]

If you have something like a Tesla Model 3 and live somewhere other than Northern North Dakota or middle-of-no-where SE Texas then you should do fine with one car. I've done multiple road trips with my Tesla from NM => WA. WA => CA => NM and NM=>SD. I personally find it more relaxing since you have scheduled ~20- 30 minute breaks built into your trip.

Unfortunately some people do not want to add those 30 minute breaks into a trip. Also there is a chance of not finding an open charging port when you need to refill the battery.

An EV is perfect for states that have the charging infrastructure or if the trips are less then a full charge. But if you need to get somewhere and it is not easy to rent a vehicle then a second long range model is probably a bit of insurance.

Hopefully there will be more charging stations installed around the country as well as EV's with larger ranges. But IMO an EV is still not something I can afford or want for right now.

[nwdiver]

I am confused. I am thinking about getting an EV, but JPM says I am going to need a second vehicle and I don't want to have a second vehicle. Who's right?

If you have something like a Tesla Model 3 and live somewhere other than Northern North Dakota or middle-of-no-where SE Texas then you should do fine with one car. I've done multiple road trips with my Tesla from NM => WA. WA => CA => NM and NM=>SD. I personally find it more relaxing since you have scheduled ~20- 30 minute breaks built into your trip.

[Mike90250]

I am confused. I am thinking about getting an EV, but JPM says I am going to need a second vehicle and I don't want to have a second vehicle. Who's right?

Maybe. Do you ever drive on a trip for more than 2 or 3 hours ? EV's are great for local work and grocery runs, but for a vacation where you need to crank 800 miles a day, they don't do so well.. You could rent a ICE car, or have your own sitting around.

[funguy11]

Why is there a need for a second ICE vehicle??? I only have two EV's and drive more than 99% of the people on this forum. There are some places in the US without a local charging network, but that is quickly changing. I drive my Tesla from Chowchilla to San Diego twice a year and it is really no different than driving an ICE vehicle. Two 1 hour stops and I would do that anyways with that drive.

Tesla will be around, they have a name brand that is very valuable. They are so much more than a car company. They are a battery company, AI company, and develop the best electric motors. The biggest weakness for Tesla is their solar. Elon Musk should have never had bailed out his brother. They should have kept Solar City and its Tesla roof under a separate company umbrella. Here is the big thing about Tesla. Tesla has the brand name that the younger generation will strive to purchase. Whenever I drive my Tesla around kids get excited and want to see it. They have a built in market that will want to purchase their vehicles without any advertising.

Edit: Still waiting for the real vehicle mfgs to actually make a non-compliance car. Audi, Hyundai, Kia, etc... can't even secure enough batteries to make a few thousand cars. Tesla made a car in 2012 that is still better than any EV that is made today. Still waiting...

The tent thing is overblown. It is a sprung superstructure that many government and commercial ventures have been using for years. Tesla thought outside the box and that "tent" has been very successful for them.
https://www.sprung.com/

I am confused. I am thinking about getting an EV, but JPM says I am going to need a second vehicle and I don't want to have a second vehicle. Who's right?

[bcroe]

As far as prices are concerned I initially configured the basic model at $36k but my spouse wanted the $1k blue color option and I wanted the $4.5 Auto Pilot..That brought the car to $41.5k which was still $5k cheaper than the Hyunda Kona or the Kia Niro. BTW, the car comes equipped with the full self driving hardware that I can upgrade at any time.

I am wondering what the service situation is on the EVs. I hear talk about all the stuff they do not
need, but that may not be the case when they pass 400,000 miles (as happens here). Just who
can deal with them, for how much, and will even a minor accident total them?

As for self driving, no thanks. Bruce Roe

[Ampster]

Why is there a need for a second ICE vehicle??? I only have two EV's and drive more than 99% of the people on this forum. There are some places in the US without a local charging network, but that is quickly changing. I drive my Tesla from Chowchilla to San Diego twice a year and it is really no different than driving an ICE vehicle. Two 1 hour stops and I would do that anyways with that drive.

Tesla will be around, they have a name brand that is very valuable. They are so much more than a car company. They are a battery company, AI company, and develop the best electric motors. .......

I agree. I have driven two EVs for six years although one of the has always been a compliance car that I leased because I could write it off in my LLC. After searching for one to replace a Fiat 500e, whose lease expires next month we settled on a Tesla Model 3 as the best value. I thought I knew all the technological advantages, but recently watched two segments of Autoline Afterhours featuring Sandy Monroe. That made me realize how far Tesla is ahead of the traditional automakers.

As far as prices are concerned I initially configured the basic model at $36k but my spouse wanted the $1k blue color option and I wanted the $4.5 Auto Pilot..That brought the car to $41.5k which was still $5k cheaper than the Hyunda Kona or the Kia Niro. BTW, the car comes equipped with the full self driving hardware that I can upgrade at any time.

Based on the experience of Tesloop which has over 200k miles on some of its cars I think my cars will be around for at least X years. I have been involved in corporate finance most of my life and know that it is difficult to predict the future but I think Tesla as a manufacturer will be around in some form or another well into the future. I dont think the solar business has much value but the Powerwalls and Powerpacks give them a lead in battery technology and scale that will be difficult to catch. As discodanman45 said they are as much a battery and software company as they are a car company.

[discodanman45]

All interesting points and some things mfgs. won't tell you about - like the practical need for a second (ICE) vehicle for probably some time into the future.

Two drawbacks for me on Tesla: Out the door actual prices and transparency, and some real concern that they may not be around in X years. As the real vehicle mfgs. gear up (Re: Volkswagen etc.), the competition will increase, and most/all of any perceived Tesla advantage will decrease. I'm not convinced Tesla has what it takes to survive. Seems like they have too much of a house of cards at this time.

I'd also have concerns about buying a vehicle from a company that needs to resort to building their product in a tent.

Why is there a need for a second ICE vehicle??? I only have two EV's and drive more than 99% of the people on this forum. There are some places in the US without a local charging network, but that is quickly changing. I drive my Tesla from Chowchilla to San Diego twice a year and it is really no different than driving an ICE vehicle. Two 1 hour stops and I would do that anyways with that drive.

Tesla will be around, they have a name brand that is very valuable. They are so much more than a car company. They are a battery company, AI company, and develop the best electric motors. The biggest weakness for Tesla is their solar. Elon Musk should have never had bailed out his brother. They should have kept Solar City and its Tesla roof under a separate company umbrella. Here is the big thing about Tesla. Tesla has the brand name that the younger generation will strive to purchase. Whenever I drive my Tesla around kids get excited and want to see it. They have a built in market that will want to purchase their vehicles without any advertising.

Edit: Still waiting for the real vehicle mfgs to actually make a non-compliance car. Audi, Hyundai, Kia, etc... can't even secure enough batteries to make a few thousand cars. Tesla made a car in 2012 that is still better than any EV that is made today. Still waiting...

The tent thing is overblown. It is a sprung superstructure that many government and commercial ventures have been using for years. Tesla thought outside the box and that "tent" has been very successful for them.

https://www.sprung.com/

[jflorey2]

All interesting points and some things mfgs. won't tell you about - like the practical need for a second (ICE) vehicle for probably some time into the future.

That's true for low range EVs in locations with few chargers. With 300+ mile range EV's and a good number of chargers (i.e. as there are in CA) then you don't need the second vehicle.

As the real vehicle mfgs. gear up (Re: Volkswagen etc.), the competition will increase, and most/all of any perceived Tesla advantage will decrease.

Agreed there. The advantages of being the first will erode pretty quickly.

[J.P.M.]

Right now there is no EV that can compete with Tesla. If you buy another EV you are compromising on something. I have a Chevy Bolt and have 56,000 miles on it. It is almost a perfect car but has two main flaws. The charging speed maxes at 40 kW and has tiny seats. Taking the Bolt on long trips is a PITA. The only negative with a Tesla is the service and that is much much better. My key fob stopped working and within a week a ranger came to my house and fixed it under warranty. They also just opened a service center in Fresno this week! I could get an appointment within 5 days. There are cars that have the performance of a Tesla like the iPace and eTron, but their efficiencies are horrible. The eTron has a range of 204 miles with a 95 kWh battery and the new Model S will have a range of 370 miles with a 100 kWh battery. The Model S is also about the same size and is faster... I don't think people have any clue how far Tesla is in the lead.

All interesting points and some things mfgs. won't tell you about - like the practical need for a second (ICE) vehicle for probably some time into the future.

Two drawbacks for me on Tesla: Out the door actual prices and transparency, and some real concern that they may not be around in X years. As the real vehicle mfgs. gear up (Re: Volkswagen etc.), the competition will increase, and most/all of any perceived Tesla advantage will decrease. I'm not convinced Tesla has what it takes to survive. Seems like they have too much of a house of cards at this time.

I'd also have concerns about buying a vehicle from a company that needs to resort to building their product in a tent.