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  • funguy11
    replied
    Originally posted by nwdiver View Post

    Pre-Heating solves most of those issues. I would qualify that as 'If I lived in an extreme cold environment AND had no place to charge at home or work....'

    I mean.... the country with the highest percentage of EV sales is Norway. Not exactly known for their mild winters....

    https://electrek.co/2019/04/01/tesla...es-new-record/
    In Norway electric vehicles are now outselling gasoline powered cars.

    Leave a comment:


  • J.P.M.
    replied
    Originally posted by nwdiver View Post

    Sometimes I forget that Americans aren't as clever as Norwegians
    OOFDA !!! Some folks in places like Minnesota might disagree with you.

    Leave a comment:


  • nwdiver
    replied
    Originally posted by bcroe View Post

    Obviously you were not along on my last 1100 mile return from NH to mid IL in Jan, when
    I90 was closed. Bruce Roe
    Sometimes I forget that Americans aren't as clever as Norwegians

    Leave a comment:


  • bcroe
    replied
    Originally posted by nwdiver View Post

    Pre-Heating solves most of those issues. I would qualify that as 'If I lived in an extreme cold environment AND had no place to charge at home or work....'
    Obviously you were not along on my last 1100 mile return from NH to mid IL in Jan, when
    I90 was closed. Bruce Roe

    Leave a comment:


  • nwdiver
    replied
    Originally posted by discodanman45 View Post

    The only issue you stated that is a negative is the heating of an EV. If I lived in an extreme cold climate I would definitely not buy an EV.
    Pre-Heating solves most of those issues. I would qualify that as 'If I lived in an extreme cold environment AND had no place to charge at home or work....'

    I mean.... the country with the highest percentage of EV sales is Norway. Not exactly known for their mild winters....

    https://electrek.co/2019/04/01/tesla...es-new-record/

    Leave a comment:


  • discodanman45
    replied
    Originally posted by bcroe View Post
    There are more issues. To be competitive here they need to be front wheel drive, AWD is
    even better. Extreme cold (and heat) tend to steal range. I suppose the heater is a pure
    resistive device, they need to upgrade to the 410A refrigerant technology as used for very
    efficient heating and cooling in my mini splits. Bruce Roe
    Rear wheel drive is not an issue anymore in snow, especially with traction control and good snow tires. This is not 20 years ago where I would agree with you. Another thing is you can't say an EV is like an ICE car. EV's don't have their weight over the front tire because they don't have an engine. The weight of an EV is distributed throughout the car. RWD Tesla's perform better than any FWD car without traction control in the snow. Also my Chevy Bolt is FWD, so there goes your argument. BTW, the Model 3 has an AWD version.

    Extreme heat hardly affects range, air conditioning is not the power drain that heating the car is. Many EV's are starting to incorporate heat pumps with resistive heating. You can buy those right now.

    The only issue you stated that is a negative is the heating of an EV. If I lived in an extreme cold climate I would definitely not buy an EV.

    Leave a comment:


  • nwdiver
    replied
    Originally posted by bcroe View Post
    There are more issues. To be competitive here they need to be front wheel drive, AWD is
    even better. Extreme cold (and heat) tend to steal range. I suppose the heater is a pure
    resistive device, they need to upgrade to the 410A refrigerant technology as used for very
    efficient heating and cooling in my mini splits. Bruce Roe
    Most EVs are now AWD (because of Tesla); Unlike ICE there's actually a slight efficiency advantage to AWD since the drive units are single speed. With AWD the front and rear drive units can be geared differently effectively making the car 2 speed. More power to lower gear for better starting torque and more power to higher gear for slightly better efficiency on the highway.

    Leave a comment:


  • bcroe
    replied
    There are more issues. To be competitive here they need to be front wheel drive, AWD is
    even better. Extreme cold (and heat) tend to steal range. I suppose the heater is a pure
    resistive device, they need to upgrade to the 410A refrigerant technology as used for very
    efficient heating and cooling in my mini splits. Bruce Roe

    Leave a comment:


  • nwdiver
    replied
    Originally posted by Mike90250 View Post

    I'm in a mountainous rural area, off grid. 1400' elevation change to the 3 towns nearby. no EV for me, and sure not going to pull a trailer of hay up the hill from the feed store with one.

    Our "town" recently installed 4 EV chargers as part of some sort of grant. Within a week, the cords had been stolen for copper scrap.
    These ain't your daddy's EVs....

    https://www.rivian.com

    - 400 Mile Range
    - 750HP
    - 11,000# towing capacity
    > 10,000 ft-lbs of torque
    - 0-60 in ~3s


    Originally posted by SunEagle View Post

    There aren't any charging stations within 20 miles of my house and most of them are South towards the Tampa Bay area which I seldom travel to.
    The closest charging station to my house is ~70 miles away. Even if there was one closer I wouldn't use it.... I charge at home. My driveway is my charging station.
    Last edited by nwdiver; 06-02-2019, 03:46 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • SunEagle
    replied
    Originally posted by Mike90250 View Post

    I'm in a mountainous rural area, off grid. 1400' elevation change to the 3 towns nearby. no EV for me, and sure not going to pull a trailer of hay up the hill from the feed store with one.

    Our "town" recently installed 4 EV chargers as part of some sort of grant. Within a week, the cords had been stolen for copper scrap.
    There aren't any charging stations within 20 miles of my house and most of them are South towards the Tampa Bay area which I seldom travel to.

    It all comes down to the logistics of where you live and how far you want to go that makes an EV worthwhile. Oh I just filled up my Tundra at a Shell gas station for $2.42/ gal. Not the cheapest but still much less then gas in CA.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mike90250
    replied
    Originally posted by Ampster View Post

    Last month my wife and I drove from Northern California to Tennessee and back. One day we easily drove 800 miles. The car did quite well. It all depends on your perspective. I assume you don't own an EV?
    I'm in a mountainous rural area, off grid. 1400' elevation change to the 3 towns nearby. no EV for me, and sure not going to pull a trailer of hay up the hill from the feed store with one.

    Our "town" recently installed 4 EV chargers as part of some sort of grant. Within a week, the cords had been stolen for copper scrap.

    Leave a comment:


  • discodanman45
    replied
    Originally posted by J.P.M. View Post

    So if you hate it, don't engage in it. Takes at least two to argue.

    Some folks think what they perceive as the limited range of EV's as well as the (perhaps) self induced range anxiety that comes with current lower fueling point distribution density compared to the near ubiquitous ICE fuel stations reduces the desirability and practicality of EV use for more than local (say maybe 100 mile or so) trips.

    For those of us who are not dazzling urbanites, or have not yet learned how to or are unable to tie it in a knot for more range between piss calls, or are unaware of the uses of trucker bombs such things may be more of a consideration.

    But seriously, my guess is range anxiety will decrease as EV ranges increase, charging locations increase in number and charging times drop to 5 minutes or so and the whole issue devolves to the practical and virtual equivalent of fueling an ICE vehicle.

    Everyone has their goals, perceptions of what's a PITA, and their own priorities and opinions, and everyone/s situation is different.
    I meant I didn't like the argument of the driving 800 miles a day, not arguing I hear that over and over again, and that is just a silly argument IMO. If you can install a level 2 charger at your house or have reliable access to one, driving an EV in California will actually save you time fueling over the year. There has been calculations done on that. Spending 5 to 10 minutes at a gas station every time you fuel or just plugging in at home with the occasional long trip with fast charging. In the long run an EV will save you time. Now an EV is not practical if you live in an apartment or can't install a level 2 charger. I didn't even mention maintenance. The Model 3 doesn't need maintenance at all except for rotation of tires and cabin air filter for at least 100,000 miles.

    The cost is the big thing against EV's. I spend $35,000 on a used Model S, yup used... It is a huge expense, but I love it. I never had a car perform like this and at 5000 lbs it is also the safest car I have ever driven. It is a luxury car and I am fortunate to be able to afford it. If you have the mechanical knowledge a used ICE vehicle will save you a ton of money. However, in my area you would have to be silly not to buy an EV like a Chevy Bolt if you bought a new car and have level 2 charging capability. You can get the Bolt in my area for about $15,000 new and will save lots of money in fueling and maintenance. The Bolt would basically be a free car if you got 300,000 miles on it with fuel savings at that cost. It is a scary thing buying an EV though and I think the public needs to be educated. I feel sorry for people buying their first EV at a dealership and getting home and are shocked it takes 50 hours to charge on a 120 Volt plug.

    Leave a comment:


  • J.P.M.
    replied
    Originally posted by discodanman45 View Post

    I hate this argument. Who in their mind drives 800 miles a day on a regular basis? If I have to drive 800 miles in a day I will take something called a plane. I have two EV's and drive them about 50,000 miles a year. I think that is a tad better than local work and grocery runs. Not once since I had an EV I said to myself that I wish I had an ICE car. Most EV's these days can drive 2 or 3 hours on one charge. In California you also have to consider gas prices with electricity. My EV's cost me about $1800 a year in maintenance to drive 50,000 miles. Even a Prius at current gas prices would be over $5000 in gas and maintenance. The other thing is driving a Tesla is much funner to drive than a Prius. There is a reason why once people buy an EV that they don't want an ICE engine.
    So if you hate it, don't engage in it. Takes at least two to argue.

    Some folks think what they perceive as the limited range of EV's as well as the (perhaps) self induced range anxiety that comes with current lower fueling point distribution density compared to the near ubiquitous ICE fuel stations reduces the desirability and practicality of EV use for more than local (say maybe 100 mile or so) trips.

    For those of us who are not dazzling urbanites, or have not yet learned how to or are unable to tie it in a knot for more range between piss calls, or are unaware of the uses of trucker bombs such things may be more of a consideration.

    But seriously, my guess is range anxiety will decrease as EV ranges increase, charging locations increase in number and charging times drop to 5 minutes or so and the whole issue devolves to the practical and virtual equivalent of fueling an ICE vehicle.

    Everyone has their goals, perceptions of what's a PITA, and their own priorities and opinions, and everyone/s situation is different.

    Leave a comment:


  • bcroe
    replied
    Originally posted by discodanman45 View Post

    I hate this argument. Who in their mind drives 800 miles a day on a regular basis? If I have to drive 800 miles in a day I will take something called a plane. I have two EV's and drive them about 50,000 miles a year. I think that is a tad better than local work and grocery runs. Not once since I had an EV I said to myself that I wish I had an ICE car. Most EV's these days can drive 2 or 3 hours on one charge. In California you also have to consider gas prices with electricity. My EV's cost me about $1800 a year in maintenance to drive 50,000 miles. Even a Prius at current gas prices would be over $5000 in gas and maintenance. The other thing is driving a Tesla is much funner to drive than a Prius. There is a reason why once people buy an EV that they don't want an ICE engine.
    EV is one answer, but not always the clear cut answer. For decades I drove 500 miles,
    800 miles, 900 miles, 1100 miles, and even 1250 miles in a 24 hour period. From this
    location I found that up to 500 miles is about break even time between driving and flying,
    after all the parking, renting, loading, unloading, and so on. Money wise 2 or 4 people
    can usually save big bucks. If you are carrying huge amounts of luggage (as I did), flying
    is just about out of the question. My average speed was 66 mph conditions allowing.

    Cost wise note my current driver cost me $2200 a couple decades ago, and maintenance
    for this DIY is tiny beyond the tires, brakes, license, and ins all cars must pay. I have
    another car I paid $4000 for, between them have driven nearly 400,000 miles. Bruce Roe
    Last edited by bcroe; 06-01-2019, 02:56 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • discodanman45
    replied
    Originally posted by Mike90250 View Post

    Maybe. Do you ever drive on a trip for more than 2 or 3 hours ? EV's are great for local work and grocery runs, but for a vacation where you need to crank 800 miles a day, they don't do so well.. You could rent a ICE car, or have your own sitting around.
    I hate this argument. Who in their mind drives 800 miles a day on a regular basis? If I have to drive 800 miles in a day I will take something called a plane. I have two EV's and drive them about 50,000 miles a year. I think that is a tad better than local work and grocery runs. Not once since I had an EV I said to myself that I wish I had an ICE car. Most EV's these days can drive 2 or 3 hours on one charge. In California you also have to consider gas prices with electricity. My EV's cost me about $1800 a year in maintenance to drive 50,000 miles. Even a Prius at current gas prices would be over $5000 in gas and maintenance. The other thing is driving a Tesla is much funner to drive than a Prius. There is a reason why once people buy an EV that they don't want an ICE engine.

    Leave a comment:

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