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Indiana Senate Bill 309

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  • Originally posted by DanS26 View Post
    Here is the language in the bill that is offensive......


    " 15. To ensure that a customer is properly charged for the costs of the electricity delivery system through which an electricity supplier provides retail electric service to the customer:

    (1) all distributed generation produced by the customer shall be purchased by the electricity supplier at the rate approved by the commission under section 13 of this chapter; and

    (2) all electricity consumed by the customer at the premises shall be considered electricity supplied by the electricity supplier and is subject to the applicable retail rate schedule."


    I interpret that language as confiscation of private property without adequate compensation.
    I'd suggest the wording may need a bit of work, or some definitions of terms need to be supplied.

    Comment


    • distributed generation produced by the customer
      reads to me, that it has to be Distributed to the Grid, Does not say all local production
      Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
      || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
      || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

      solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
      gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Mike90250 View Post
        reads to me, that it has to be Distributed to the Grid, Does not say all local production
        Here's the language describing "distributed generation"........

        Sec. 3. (a) As used in this chapter, "distributed generation" means electricity produced by a generator or other device that is:

        (1) located on the customer's premises;
        (2) owned by the customer;
        (3) sized at a nameplate capacity of the lesser of:
        (A) not more than one (1) megawatt; or
        (B) the customer's average annual consumption of energy on the premises; and
        (4) interconnected and operated in parallel with the electricity supplier's facilities in accordance with the commission's approved interconnection standards.


        Read together it means all distributed generation, whether that generation touches the grid or not.

        Comment


        • Everyone....just read this.....Indiana maybe first with this type of utility push back, but this proposal is coming to a state near you. This is just the beginning......


          http://iga.in.gov/legislative/2017/bills/senate/309#

          Comment


          • Originally posted by DanS26 View Post

            Here's the language describing "distributed generation"........

            Sec. 3. (a) As used in this chapter, "distributed generation" means electricity produced by a generator or other device that is:

            (1) located on the customer's premises;
            (2) owned by the customer;
            (3) sized at a nameplate capacity of the lesser of:
            (A) not more than one (1) megawatt; or
            (B) the customer's average annual consumption of energy on the premises; and
            (4) interconnected and operated in parallel with the electricity supplier's facilities in accordance with the commission's approved interconnection standards.


            Read together it means all distributed generation, whether that generation touches the grid or not.
            Killjoy.
            Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
            || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
            || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

            solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
            gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

            Comment


            • Well this is farcical. It will end up being challenged in court, Last time I checked its not the governments role to legislate theft from private citizens. It will end up being a lawyers picnic.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by solar pete View Post
                Well this is farcical. It will end up being challenged in court, Last time I checked its not the governments role to legislate theft from private citizens. It will end up being a lawyers picnic.
                Pete, If this bill passes then I do expect it to be challenged in court. It appears that the special interests in this case are willing to take that risk. Why else would they purposely confiscate private property without adequate compensation?

                The good people of Indiana just do not know that this theft is about to occur.......but they will be riled up once they understand.

                Comment


                • The utility interests are very short sighted in using this approach. They are going to alienate most people. Grid tie is a good thing.....you do not want to drive people away from the grid.....but that is what they are doing. We are just a short technology breakthrough away from allowing a lot of people to live grid free.

                  It just does not make sense to me that the utility interests want to drive people away from their product. I guess if you are a monopoly then you think that way.

                  Comment


                  • This is the article I read concerning the Indiana bill. It did not mention the part that everything you generate they could take from you.

                    Although reading the info on what DanS26 posted makes me wonder exactly what will be passed or not.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by DanS26 View Post
                      (4) interconnected and operated in parallel with the electricity supplier's facilities in accordance with the commission's approved interconnection standards.

                      Read together it means all distributed generation, whether that generation touches the grid or not.
                      Those two things don't go together. If it is operated in parallel with the grid, and meets interconnect standards, then the above applies. If it does not operate in parallel, then that section does not apply, and it's not distributed generation.

                      Comment


                      • Still looks to me like clarification of a lot of terms, etc. is necessary. Until then, and until such info comes from an authoritative source, seems like a lot of conjecture about what it all means.

                        Dan S.: Any chance anyone in IN besides you, and including legislators might be able to read this thread ?

                        Comment


                        • Duke Energy, the major public utility in Indiana, does not charge a "service availability" fee. That is usually a flat fee charge per residential meter by public and private utilities to cover the distribution grid. Duke has to bury those distribution costs in the retail rate.

                          Now lets read Section 15 of the bill again:

                          " 15. To ensure that a customer is properly charged for the costs of the electricity delivery system through which an electricity supplier provides retail electric service to the customer:

                          (1) all distributed generation produced by the customer shall be purchased by the electricity supplier at the rate approved by the commission under section 13 of this chapter; and

                          (2) all electricity consumed by the customer at the premises shall be considered electricity supplied by the electricity supplier and is subject to the applicable retail rate schedule."



                          See bold type and red type....Duke needs to cover the cost of the delivery system. This is their method to recover the delivery costs.

                          It is a poor method because it requires confiscation of private property to accomplish their goal.
                          Last edited by DanS26; 02-20-2017, 08:45 PM. Reason: Spelling

                          Comment


                          • And 15.2 seems pretty clear their intention to charge for customer generated electricity.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by DanS26 View Post
                              Duke Energy, the major public utility in Indiana, does not charge a "service availability" fee. That is usually a flat fee charge per residential meter by public and private utilities to cover the distribution grid. Duke has to bury those distribution costs in the retail rate.

                              Now lets read Section 15 of the bill again:

                              " 15. To ensure that a customer is properly charged for the costs of the electricity delivery system through which an electricity supplier provides retail electric service to the customer:

                              (1) all distributed generation produced by the customer shall be purchased by the electricity supplier at the rate approved by the commission under section 13 of this chapter; and

                              (2) all electricity consumed by the customer at the premises shall be considered electricity supplied by the electricity supplier and is subject to the applicable retail rate schedule."



                              See bold type and red type....Duke needs to cover the cost of the delivery system. This is their method to recover the delivery costs.

                              It is a poor method because it requires confiscation of private property to accomplish their goal.
                              A quick perusal into the bill's latest update, dated 02/21/2017, and subject to me missing something (which is likely), leads me to wonder if, depending on just how a "net metering facility" is defined in "170 IAC 4 - 4.2 - 1(k)" , whatever that is, such facilities are not, or may not be considered to be "distributed generation facilities" per pp. 8 & 9, of Senate bill 309, under Chap. 40, Sec.3, (3),(b),(2) ,

                              (b),(2) says: "(b), the term does not include electricity produced by the following",

                              and : " (2), A net metering facility as defined in (170 IAC 4 - 4.2 - 1(k)) operating under a net metering tariff."

                              So, if a PV system is on a net metering tariff, it looks like it may not be a considered a "distributed generation facility" and therefore not subject to the requirements of Sec. 15.

                              Also, Secs. 13 and 4 of the bill look to me like they deal with grandfathering.

                              Been reading customer and gov. specs for a long time. I haven't torn this one apart because I don't live in IN, but there seems more to it than a simple read might lead one to conclude.

                              But, like I wrote, maybe and probably I'm missing something.

                              Comment


                              • CA actually confronted this same thing during development of the NEM successor. SDG&E's proposal included a "choice" between a plan which allowed self-consumption, but charged both a "system access fee" and a "grid use fee" that would total to something over $60 / mo for a typical system, and what they called the "sun credit" plan which disallowed self-consumption:

                                From D1601044

                                2.6.2.
                                SDG&E's "Sun Credits" proposal would require customers to purchase energy from the utility to meet all of their energy needs and to export all of their generation to the grid.

                                They would be compensated for exported energy with a bill credit equivalent to the retail system average commodity rate. SDG&E proposes an initial flat compensation rate because it is of the opinion that its current TOU periods do not line up with the times in which generation capacity is most costly. SDG&E states that once its TOU periods are aligned with generation costs of service, it will propose to change its compensation rate to a TOU structure.

                                Under SDG&E's proposal, VNM and NEMA customers would be required to participate in the Sun Credits option.
                                Last edited by sensij; 02-21-2017, 04:29 AM.
                                CS6P-260P/SE3000 - http://tiny.cc/ed5ozx

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