Boycott BP Solar.

[russ]

The analogy with the iron is not great as it is affected by less a variety of things in the environment than oil is.

What you mention about all living things needing iron may well be but it is such a minute amount as to make no difference. But what I was trying to say that Fe is not found in the environment. Fe2O3 & Fe3O4, yes as they are natural.

İf you place a pile of iron ore (Fe2O3 or Fe3O4) in the ocean and leave it for a thousand years it will still be there in the same quantity. Oil - no it will not.

I am certain no one understands how and where all the oil goes - and the clowns from the universities least of all. There has been lots of noise from the 'can't do so I will teach' types in the news this week.

It has been seen in many places that the mess slowly goes away - despite the panic by a small portion of the population. The warmer temperatures in the more shallow areas of the Gulf of Mexico is a better case than in Alaska.

[ionized]

Nice try - challenging someone to prove a negative. If one has interest and believes the imaginary oil is still there then they should go find it. This sounds very green to me! That bunch is big on throwing out a silly point and challenging others to prove the falsity of it.

I'm not into the religious side but oil naturally degrades when brought into the open and especially in the ocean. Oil in sea water is not a natural state so all components start to find a 'natural state' ASAP. Similar - you never find free iron in the environment.

If Hayward hadn't been such a dip this would have never achieved such a status. I guess we can't fault the prez for not understanding how to proceed as he is a lawyer.

That's funny because I was considering quoting Carl Sagan, "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."

In fact, even though BP and others with the same ax to grind can't find any of the recently-spilled oil, other investigators are finding it. In the case of any recent, sizable man-made, marine spill, oil is still being found.

Your free iron analogy is faulty. The fact that iron is required by all or virtually all living organisms, and iron chemistry conspire make that true. The same is not true for petroleum. (Note that iron is not soluble at a pH reasonable for most living things.) Iron is actively soaked-up by living things because they need it. Petroleum is soaked up by living things and it is toxic. Iron is green. Petroleum is not.

I do believe that natural organisms can break down petroleum in sea water. They can do it because the same characteristics make them adapted to "making a living" by breaking down related, natural chemicals. This does not mean that they can do it fast enough or in a way that significantly mitigates the effects of the spilled petroleum. Anyone that believes that we understand the process of the consumption or sequestering of large amounts of oceanic petroleum has their head in the oil-soaked sand. No one will know the effects of this recent Gulf spill for AT LEAST a couple of years.

[russ]

If "they" can't find the oil, they are using the right methods to look for it or they are not looking in the right places.

Nice try - challenging someone to prove a negative. If one has interest and believes the imaginary oil is still there then they should go find it. This sounds very green to me! That bunch is big on throwing out a silly point and challenging others to prove the falsity of it.

What past oil spills are you referring to? I know of no recent large marine oil spills where no oil can be found.

Natural seems for one thing - large amounts enter the environment daily.

What day of creation what oil created? What day were the natural defense mechanisms created?

I'm not into the religious side but oil naturally degrades when brought into the open and especially in the ocean. Oil in sea water is not a natural state so all components start to find a 'natural state' ASAP. Similar - you never find free iron in the environment.

If Hayward hadn't been such a dip this would have never achieved such a status. I guess we can't fault the prez for not understanding how to proceed as he is a lawyer.

His team of scientific advisors were a bad joke - out of their fields and supposed to offer suggestions on what to do. If he wanted such a team he should have called Houston and told someone to send him the best available experts from anywhere around the world. They would have been much more useful.

A real disappointment for me was how bad BP was at getting the data out. To a degree it is understandable as they were going into the unknown and wanted to try to cover their backsides - especially with the 'tough guy' prez (a joke in itself) threatening to 'kick some ass'. BP went into the 'mushroom' mode which was real stupid.

Hayward managed to make a bad situation 1000 times worse for BP.

[ionized]

Well it seems all the DOOM and GLOOM the Whitehouse hoped for did not happen. Now that the leak is plugged the damage is no where as close as the Doom & Gloomers had hoped for and predicted. Heck they cannot even find any oil now. They forgot about one thing. Our great creator put oil on this earth, and He also put a natural defense mechanism in place in case it should ever be needed. If the Doom & Gloomers just would have looked at past oil spills, they would have known that.

That is not to say what happened was not bad, it just not near as bad as folks are lead to believe. Maybe next time it happens they learned a lesson to first put out the barriers to keep it off the coast, plug the leak, then let Mother Nature take care of it.

If "they" can't find the oil, they are using the right methods to look for it or they are not looking in the right places.

What past oil spills are you referring to? I know of no recent large marine oil spills where no oil can be found.

What day of creation what oil created? What day were the natural defense mechanisms created? BP obviously did it backwards creating the spill before coping methods were devised.

[russ]

Simmons - Maybe he suffocated under the weight of his own BS!

The old guy was delusional and caught up in his own distortions and spin.

I haven't been able to work up many tears for such a gossip master.

[MarineLiner]

"Simmons was an energy investment banker that had started raising money to develop and build offshore turbines."

...or that either.

[crxvfr]

Don't rock the boat, or be the tall nail that sticks up the highest.

"Simmons was an energy investment banker that had started raising money to develop and build offshore turbines."

...or that either.

[Mike90250]

Don't rock the boat, or be the tall nail that sticks up the highest.

[crxvfr]

Well it seems all the DOOM and GLOOM the Whitehouse hoped for did not happen. Now that the leak is plugged the damage is no where as close as the Doom & Gloomers had hoped for and predicted.

Heres some for ya.


Matt Simmons, alternative energy proponent and BP Critic who claimed the ocean under the surface is filled with rogue plumes from the leak, is dead.

He drowned at his house.

Go figure.

Matt Simmons, the maverick investment banker who championed the concept of peak oil, died of a heart attack in a hot tub in Maine. He was 67.

Simmons is best known for raising the alarm, in books, in lectures, television interviews and to anyone who would listen, that the world’s oil reserves had peaked.

Bloomberg News

[Sunking]

Well it seems all the DOOM and GLOOM the Whitehouse hoped for did not happen. Now that the leak is plugged the damage is no where as close as the Doom & Gloomers had hoped for and predicted. Heck they cannot even find any oil now. They forgot about one thing. Our great creator put oil on this earth, and He also put a natural defense mechanism in place in case it should ever be needed. If the Doom & Gloomers just would have looked at past oil spills, they would have known that.

That is not to say what happened was not bad, it just not near as bad as folks are lead to believe. Maybe next time it happens they learned a lesson to first put out the barriers to keep it off the coast, plug the leak, then let Mother Nature take care of it.

[DIYjoe]

boycott bp ? what about china

BP makes the best panels. if we boycott bp, what do we do Buy CHINA JUNK panels. china ppanels take 3 80 panels to do what 2 BP panel put out. China is responcible for filling our land fills with junk and trash, no china, no land fills filled up.
If bp fails who pays for clean up? Oh just have nancy print more money, and the reast of our children can pay the interst.

[DIYjoe]

BP did not do it, it was accident

If BP fails, tax payers get to clean it up. why wish BP to fail. BP gives the greenys and demacrats the most money, If bp fails who pays.
Dont worry, the slip and fall lawyers will be sueing BP for 100 yrs.
Neck braces cant be found near the gulf, every store is out of them.

Never fails for demacrat greenys who cant see the big picture.
Boy cott Obama Hussain for distroying the USA and our free rights.

[russ]

I was reading today about court cases filed against BP and Transocean. Some are filed using RICO. I expect that it will take time but they will suffer.

RICO offers criminal penalties if they can make it stick. That seems to revolve around their attempts (successful) to sway people at the old MMS to the way they wanted them to think.

Would be wonderful to see Hayward 'get his life back' while a guest of the government - even if it did turn out to be nicer than the usual prison.

[crxvfr]

My last post was not aimed at you, Russ, but.....

Idealist have a hard row to hoe here.

There is no shortage of people that are thinking like you are.
If you want a paradigm shift, stick with the masses.
Spending your time arguing with people that might have a vested interest isn't even fun.

Who wants to bet gas prices will rise significantly within the next three months, ......or after BP manages to get rid of the bad press.

[ionized]

My last post was not aimed at you, Russ, but at the thread in general. I have been know to try to put words in other's mouths Sympathy for stockholders, no. I'll save it for people who may lose family traditions that go back for several generations. In some cases, forever as far as they know. I have met some of the people on the LA coast that are being affected. They are very fearful for their futures and distraught at the loss of their traditions.

I do not consider myself a reactive "green", nor do I pay much attention to political posturing. I understand that the latter is necessary to appeal to the uncritical, mostly lazily ignorant, public. Great politicians get a lot done despite the bologna they need to speak to stay in office.

I am mad at BP. They circumvented safety devices or did not maintain them properly. They did not have an adequate containment plan. BP, and their drilling partners are the responsible parties. It seems like they are sometimes reluctant to bring to bear all the resources available because it would tip their hand that the spill was larger than 1000, 5000, or whatever barrels/day. It seems like they are playing a stupid, juvenile game of hiding the broken vase hoping that mom won't notice that it is missing. (We've had 10s of thousands of barrels of oil going into the water because collection ships were en route while enabled collection mechanisms remained idle for days or weeks.)

Does anyone who posted about losses in the Cal or NY pension plans have any what percentage they lost as a result of the losses of BP stock?