Boycott BP Solar.

[russ]

@ rimpa001 - You are asking people to think for themselves - something most are not comfortable with as they have never had to do it.

The post that started this thread is one of those - what I refer to as 'green mafia' methods.

Current politics are somewhat the same - you don't have to be for anything but just be mad at someone. More fools than ever will be elected to go to Washington by the 'mad' types come November.

Though greens are a very small percentage of the population they have outsized influence due to their screaming and misrepresentation of facts.

The current loony scheme is for CA to change the state stone from serpentine to something else as serpentine contains asbestos. The congressman that dreamed this up must be a real loony. CA has many other problems that do need attention - I am not at all sure why a state needs a 'state rock' to begin with!

[solar_dave]

The oil spill is another way of showing the real cost of a carbon based economy. As unfortunate as it is, I think that people are starting to realize that there are huge hidden costs in continuing down the road unabated with a carbon based energy systems. Do we really think the BP will be forced to cover all the economic impacts of the spill? How could you even measure that?

Problem is the alternatives are not cheap either for the average Joe trying to put food on the table and pay the rent. Really the only way to get progress on the problem is to unhide all those hidden costs. This is a big conversion in how we view the economic impact of our energy sources. If we did that it would become obvious that we waste lots and that conservation alone could have a big impact. Not conservation in the sense of a cold dark house, but increases in efficiency. Then the incremental costs of conversion to other sources would pay off even bigger.

If the Exon Valdez is any indication, BP can never put the genie back in the bottle and make it all OK. But that said, boycotting BP is the the wrong attitude IMHO. Make them pay through the nose as best we can for their stupidity, then drive the economy away from the problem altogether. As long as we continue to drill, mine, burn and transport this will just happen again and we are doomed to repeat history.

[rimpa001]

I would like to encourage people to not use BP Solar panels anymore. What they have done in the Gulf is so horrendous, there is no excuse, and we are going to be living with this for decades. It was not an honest mistake, there was clear negligence, all in the name of maximixing profits and minimizing safety.

Buying BP solar panels might be a bad investment anyway. Hopefully at some point they will go bankrupt, or at least their assests will be seized by the government to help pay back the communities who will be living with this. If anything like that happens, the warranty on your panels will be as good as gone, along with the scores of sea creatures who have already died and continue to die each day.

Boycott BP Solar... to protect your investment, and to know you're not supporting a horrible company who has created the largest environmental disaster in the history of our country.

There are plenty of other companies to buy solar panels from.

This is not the correct way to show your anger...Keep in mind the welfare of those people who have invested a fare amount in these companies...I hope you will understand the feelings & sentiments of those investors...

[russ]

@trbizwiz - Agreed with your points.

@ionized - Didn't miss your point at all. There are many wastes that are far greater than this but with a million people making them and spread out they are not noticed. The amount spilled into the gulf would be lost in the small numbers when compared to the annual world hydrocarbon consumption.

Multiples of this amount are wasted in gas hogs on the road - it is easier to do something there - not as popular with the public as screaming at BP though.

The gulf spill allows for a lot of politicians and environmental types to wave their arms and make useless threats (president included) and to try to impress the population.

Do you have any idea of how much natural gas has been flared over the past 50 years? They had to get rid of it to get to the oil so what to do but flare and no one is really close enough to see what is happening.

[trbizwiz]

This is a dual travesty, in that it is an enormous waste of resources, and will damage areas of the gulf for decades if not longer. On the up side, it is very likely that new technologies will come about to aide in the cleanup that will benefit us for centuries. Technologies that would never have gotten a chance or funding otherwise.
I am a strong advocate of investigation and prosecution of any and all individuals involved, both from BP and its subcontractors that did the drilling and suppliers as well. There are probably many good people that work for BP, and they will be left behind to run the company after the criminals are in jail. Now that company will have a financial obligation to remedy its error for as long as it remains in business. I for one hope it stays in business long enough to completely fix this disaster, and fix all the harm it caused. And maybe it will strive to make clean energy more possible and affordable as a way to make amends in the process. If it turns out to be a bad company filled with bad people it will likely fail.
But I agree that a failed company definitely wont fix the mess. And they do make good products, so the solar portion would likely spin off or sell off if they go under anyway.

[ionized]

Your response to what you quoted does not connect with me so maybe you missed my point. That is that as petrochemicals become more rare, they will be far more valuable as the raw material for making things than for burning up for energy.

It is quite likely that people will find it difficult to comprehend how anyone could do anything as stupid as to burn something as useful as natural gas and petroleum.

That is my way of saying that higher prices right now might not be such a bad thing.

[russ]

Another way of saying this is that less competition and higher prices lead to lower consumption leaving more of this precious resource for generations to come.

BTW, the generations to come may well be scratching their heads wondering how we could have just burned up all that precious feed-stock for making petro-based materials.

Though the oil is a mess in the water of the gulf it is a 'drop in the bucket' in the overall scheme. Won't ever be noticed.

[ionized]

Like I said earlier in this thread you need to be careful what you ask for because you might very well get it... Regardless of how you feel you, your children, and grand children cannot live without fossil fuels. There is nothing that can fully replace it. If BP goes under, then there is less competition. Less completion means less supply and higher prices.

Another way of saying this is that less competition and higher prices lead to lower consumption leaving more of this precious resource for generations to come.

BTW, the generations to come may well be scratching their heads wondering how we could have just burned up all that precious feed-stock for making petro-based materials.

[crxvfr]

What can they see if closer? Dead birds maybe?

THIS
...dang russ, sorry, I keep forgetting you can't get youtube. It's a citizen in pensacola fl dragging his foot thru the sand. 2" down is a covered up orange layer.

... a painful "de-contanimation" procedure, if they got close to where BP was covering oil with clean sand.

um, ...scary speechless. (I bet you thought that would never happen )

[Mike90250]

Anymore every blogger can consider themselves a 'reporter' meaning no control over the scene.

There were lot's of "bloggers" with full camera crews that were turned back at roadblocks miles from beaches, and threatened with a painful "de-contanimation" procedure, if they got close to where BP was covering oil with clean sand. A huge no-fly zone, basically a PR move to prohibit coverage.

Not just green meanies.

[russ]

I have trouble understanding the 'popular rage' that reporters were not allowed within 20 meters of the equipment.

What can they see if closer? Dead birds maybe?

Anymore every blogger can consider themselves a 'reporter' meaning no control over the scene.

This is just the green mafia trying to stir up a tempest in a tea cup.

[crxvfr]

Due to popular rage at the ban on reporters and photographers from within 65 feet of the oil spill, Coast Guard admiral Thad Allen has rescinded the ban.

[Sunking]

Like I said earlier in this thread you need to be careful what you ask for because you might very well get it... Regardless of how you feel you, your children, and grand children cannot live without fossil fuels. There is nothing that can fully replace it. If BP goes under, then there is less competition. Less completion means less supply and higher prices.

Secondly if you work for a living and have a pension or 401K plan, you are likely asking to have your own throat cut. For example California state workers have lost $500,000,000 and New York $128,000,000 since the fire started back in April. Those state pension funds are heavily loaded with energy stocks like any large company with a 401K or pension plan. Those losses are the drop in BP stock price. If BP goes under those numbers double. Not to mention 10's of thousands of jobs and billion in tax revenue losses.

[solite]

Solar is one of the few good things that BP does. If anything, we should be encouraging what they do well. Maybe if their solar business makes them some money, they will put more effort into it.

I think the 50 billion they are likely to lose on this disaster will have them recalculating the cost of cutting corners.

BP gas stations are not owned by BP, but by independent operators, so I agree that punishing them has little positive value.

If you want to punish BP, dump their stock. Support politicians who don't suck up to big oil.

Most importantly, cut consumption. Even a relatively minor change in lifestyle can have real effects. And you get to feel smug, too.

One great way to cut consumption is to go solar. Handy that!

That is true, I never thought of it that way. You have a solid point that changed my outlook on the subject. but one still can't help but be mad at the corporation as a whole.

[russ]

@ pft - 100% correct but many follow the knee jerk reaction path.

Like you say - do something positive rather than cry.