SCE forcing me off TOU-D-A

[jasonvr]

oldguy - so you are in a different scenario than me. Based on your PTO date (Sept 2017), you are NEM2.0 which gives you 5 yrs from when you elected TOU, which I'm guessing was shortly after your PTO, right?

Since I was PTO in June 2017, I am NEM1.0. But there is an unstated condition that is buried in the tariff and not mentioned on their main webpage that initial connection request must have been in by January 31, 2017. I didn't even start looking into solar until March 2017. So basically, it seems like I was lucky I even went as long as I did....

[oldguy]

Ok...couldn't figure out how to start a new thread. See my two posts above...but just read this post to save some time if you like...

Finally after talking to about 5 different people today at SCE...and two supervisors...I finally got what I needed (I hope). I was told by the last supervisor I spoke with (in the solar billing department) that their contracts team will be writing and sending me a letter to concur that my transition date is Sept 2022. (My PTO was Sept 2017). Each time I asked the CSR or supervisor was able to stipulate that my transition was to be Dec 2021 per the transition letter. Up until this last phone call my request for "something in writing" was met with "we have no way of doing that".

So to keep from boring you with details of my previous two posts here's what I found out:

My understanding is every residential customer got exactly the same letter...transition in Dec 2021...this told to me by a supervisor, btw.

Several CSRs and both supervisors confirm that that transition notification was poorly worded and/or inaccurately worded and that they are getting tons of calls on the letter. To me it seems as if it should only have gone out to people that were currently non-solar and currently on tiered rates (vs. TOU). Else, they should have had a caveat paragraph stipulating what needs to be done if one is grandfathered via solar and a discontinued rate plan. The link that is provided in the letter for discontinued plans does not adequately cover PTO/grandfather/etc.

So I got most (SCE reps) to agree that the letter didn't apply to me and I should (and will) transition 5 years after my PTO. A letter should be here within a week but I'm not holding my breath and at least if it doesn't show up I will get back on the phone. It took 3 calls and two elevations to a supervisor before someone would stipulate that I would get something in writing. I hate that it took me two hours to make this happen.

For you...make sure that your stipulated transition is correct. If not, you may have to go through the same number of phone calls. That said...save yourself some time and when you talk to the first CSR get transferred over to the solar billing team if that's not who you are speaking to. Once you get a solar billing CSR they probably won't be able to help you and you'll need to ask to speak to a supervisor. Best bet is to just quickly explain that your transition period is incorrect and you need something from SCE in writing to indicate your correct transition date. The CSR will tell you that can't be done (I had one say I could get one only by a subpoena!). That's when you ask for "your supervisor".

If a moderator is reading this could you either post here or start a new thread because basically most people read their bills and say ok...guess that's what's going to happen. I would have lost 9 months of TOU-D-A had I not gone through the gruel of phone calls today! I'm fine with the transition (I was a EE before retiring and I understand things that are "electropolitical" such as the duck curve and keeping SCE solvent, etc.) but not fine with being tossed around by SCE.

[oldguy]

I'm going to try to start a new post on this issue now...

[oldguy]

THIS paragraph written last before posting...beware of that transition letter and make sure you get all 5 years of your grandfathering. What they told me yesterday was bull (my post above).



On hold with SCE awaiting a supervisor...but below (bolded paragraphs at end of this post) is verbatim from SCE @ /residential/rates/discontinued-rate-plans (put the sce.com in front) near the bottom in their FAQ. Looks like grandfathering through 2024, btw, instead of my previous post of July '22 (thought I saw that somewhere). As a minimum you should look at your "transitioning" letter and make sure your grandfathering, if applicable, is per below. I'm wondering if they gamed it figuring most won't think they could be gaming it! I'm on with supervisor now...first thing she said was I need to opt out but told her that wasn't even an option listed anywhere.

On hold again.

OK, Call completed. She (supervisor) apologized profusely and fessed up to getting tons of these types of calls! The letter was as a minimum a total screw up on their part -OR- designed to get folks to transition willfully (ahhh...the malicious intent version!) Per supervisor....I will be transitioning Sept 2022 and getting my first letter (60 days out in late May '22).

Note to moderator...I think this blunder worthy of a post from someone not listed as a junior member...especially since I got an incorrect answer yesterday, another one today before getting a supervisor, and then a reluctant confession today.

I asked her how I will have proof of this phone call. She said to see what your transition status is go to sce.com, go to search, enter "tou transition" and then open up the first hit that comes up (here if you want the shortcut https://pages.email.sce.com/toutransition/en/). From there you'll enter your service account number and your street number. Crap...I just reread and there's two options and she said that I could screen capture for proof of our conversation. I think I will need to call back because now I'm thinking of her first comment ("opt out") and that would be to select Option #2....but I can't find any selection process point on the their site (but will look again). So from my perspective option 1 ("take no action") may prevail and again I'm screwed!

Option 1

Take No Action to
Automatically Transition To
Your TOU Rate Plan



Option 2


You are not currently scheduled to transition. If you are scheduled for a future transition, you will receive prior notification as well as the opportunity to remain on your current Tiered rate plan.



First conversation with CSR: I read the first line CSR the NEM 2.0 portion below and all she could come back with "but it says here you're transitioning at the end of the year". I said, I know, it's wrong and that's why I'm calling you know". She said she'd transfer me to a manager. Thus on hold and message sort of indicating not likely ever to get past hold ("please use online request as we're busy with emergencies, etc)

To help ease the transition to the new TOU periods, your service account was not initially affected by this change. Instead, your account continued to be served on the then-existing rate plan. Some solar customers continued to be served on the then-existing rate plan for the duration of a five-year eligibility period starting from the Permission to Operate (PTO) date of your solar system or when you last took the discontinued rate plan. This five-year-period has expired or will expire this year for your service account.

- If you are a non-NEM customer (do not have solar power), you will transition to your new TOU rate in Q4 2021.

- If you are a NEM 1.0 customer, you will transition to your new TOU rate five years from your Permission to Operate (PTO) date, beginning in fall 2021 and not to exceed 2022. This applies to residential and small business customers who received permission to operate before July 1, 2017. If you are an NEM 1.0 customer, you will still be moved to a TOU rate plan unless you want to choose to switch to another rate plan.

- If you are a NEM 2.0 customer, you will transition to your new TOU rate five years from when you last took the discontinued TOU rate, beginning in fall 2021 and not to exceed 2024. NEM 2.0 applies to residential and small business customers who received permission to operate on or after July 1, 2017.

[oldguy]

I should have been paying more attention over the years (PTO Sept 2017) but was in that fat/dumb/happy camp as my average yearly bill was only about $50 (yearly/not monthly) until last year when my daughter was home due to covid and baking during peak hours 2-3 times a week! I, too, received the transition letter and called yesterday to ask why I wasn't given the full 5 year grandfathering...which would at least get me to Sept '22. I couldn't believe their response when I called yesterday...the "math" they are using is 2017 (1), 2018 (2), 2019 (3), 2020 (4), 2021 (5)...calendar "years". So 4 1/3 equals 5. Anyone else notice this? Temped to try to get them to honor the full five years though I thought I saw somewhere July '22 was the latest. I think I should at least be able to argue for that date. Thoughts?

[jasonvr]

I signed up for the tiered plan from my TOU-A on October 8th. When I got my bill through 10/16 it was at the tiered plan for the full month (yes, retroactively). I can't figure out the bill and decided to set it aside and look at it later. Since I track my electricity use and savings of my solar panels with each bill in Excel I want to know the details. I thought the tiered plan would be simpler than the TOU plan. Just to make it more confusing, I got the annual California climate credit of $29 making my total bill a $28 credit. I am wondering how my tracked charges will work out in May of 2022 when they reset.

Tiered is looking like the right choice for me. Apparently I have to send something back by physical mail to do that and it needs to arrive by November 15. Just seems sketchy because they can claim they didn't receive it, didn't receive it on time, etc. And with the USPS slowdowns.... Almost seems like I need to do it with return receipt requested. Other problem is that I'm out of town until November 5....

[Ward L]

I signed up for the tiered plan from my TOU-A on October 8th. When I got my bill through 10/16 it was at the tiered plan for the full month (yes, retroactively). I can't figure out the bill and decided to set it aside and look at it later. Since I track my electricity use and savings of my solar panels with each bill in Excel I want to know the details. I thought the tiered plan would be simpler than the TOU plan. Just to make it more confusing, I got the annual California climate credit of $29 making my total bill a $28 credit. I am wondering how my tracked charges will work out in May of 2022 when they reset.

[jasonvr]

Grrr, got an email back from my contact at SCE

To be eligible for five years on your current rate, interconnection applications were needed by January 31, 2017.* Your application was submitted in mid-April unfortunately. However, fortunately, to be eligible for Net Energy Metering (NEM), the “deadline” was July 31, 2017 and you made that date and can remain on NEM for 20 years. We realize the language on our website could be misleading so we are in the process of updating it now for clarification purposes and will include the specific application deadline date as well for customers.

Without reading the actual tariff, the January 31 date isn't mentioned at all

[jasonvr]

I also got the letter regarding the switch from TOU-D-A to TOU-PRIME in December 2021. My annual electricity bill will go from ~$700 to ~$1,600 as we thoroughly enjoyed the arbitrage between on-peak solar generation and the super-off peak usage when our electricity demand peaked (2 EVs, old 5-ton AC compressor in the summer, radiant floor heaters in the winter). By my estimation, our $15K 4.8kW solar array has more than paid for itself when I factor in the 30% federal tax credit and $5K annual savings on gasoline/diesel. There are still a few moves I could do to further lower my costs and electricity demands by replacing our 20 year old AC compressor with a SEER 14-16 and properly insulate my old leaky house.

When was your PTO? I'm somewhere between 1.5 and 2yrs out from payoff. No EVs, but have a pool pump I run at night during Super Off Peak which probably draws a LOT more juice than your EVs do

[maximizese]

I also got the letter regarding the switch from TOU-D-A to TOU-PRIME in December 2021. My annual electricity bill will go from ~$700 to ~$1,600 as we thoroughly enjoyed the arbitrage between on-peak solar generation and the super-off peak usage when our electricity demand peaked (2 EVs, old 5-ton AC compressor in the summer, radiant floor heaters in the winter). By my estimation, our $15K 4.8kW solar array has more than paid for itself when I factor in the 30% federal tax credit and $5K annual savings on gasoline/diesel. There are still a few moves I could do to further lower my costs and electricity demands by replacing our 20 year old AC compressor with a SEER 14-16 and properly insulate my old leaky house.

[jasonvr]

I got my letter too, but I think it is wrong. According to their own website, as an NEM1.0 customer I have 5 yrs from my PTO which means a switch in June 2022. My letter says December 2021. I've already sent an email to my contact in the Regulatory Affairs department at SCE to see what's up

BTW - letter says my increase is between $525 and $830 per year! Tiered looks like the best option for me.

[Ampster]

Created an account to comment. I too got the letter. I am thinking of switching to prime. I'm on a PPA plan (not my choice, had to take over a system in buying the house). Is there a easy way for me to only generate during the hours of 4-9 PM? I know not much will be generated at those hours, but that's the only time where the PPA would be beneficial to me. Perhaps some sort of DC switch to disconnect the panels from the inverter except between 4-9 PM? Thanks in advance.

In addition to what Mike said, you are probably restricted from turning off your system by the terms of the PPA. If you have not figured it out yet, you do not own the system and cannot alter it. The only choice is to buy out the system if there even is an option to do that. That may not even be economically feasible. It may depend on your cost of funds.

[Ampster]

I think since I have been an exporter of kWh over the year, it doesn't matter much if I am on the TOU or tiered rate........

Yes, that is correct.As long as you are an exporter.
I have two EVs and in the past on NEM 1.0 had True Ups where I had a dollar credit but was a net consumer of over a megaWatthour of energy. The two washed out and essentially I got that megaWatthour at no incremental cost. Obviously this would only apply if you began consuming more than you produced and had a dollar credit. I am now on NEM 2.0 and the Non Bypassable Charges do not make that strategy pay off in the same manner. I am mentioning it for the benefit of anyone on NEM 1.0 that could benefit from that kind of load shifting.

[Ward L]

I think since I have been an exporter of kWh over the year, it doesn't matter much if I am on the TOU or tiered rate. I have an excess of kWh and they pay me 4 cents/kWh or less for my excess power. The off peak power rate is 13 cents with TOU and 26 cents with tiered. At the end of the relevant period year I have an excess of kWh and it doesn't matter if I used expensive kWhs or cheap kWhs, they pay me the same 4 cents for the kWhs I gave them.

[Mike90250]

Created an account to comment. I too got the letter. I am thinking of switching to prime. I'm on a PPA plan (not my choice, had to take over a system in buying the house). Is there a easy way for me to only generate during the hours of 4-9 PM? I know not much will be generated at those hours, but that's the only time where the PPA would be beneficial to me. Perhaps some sort of DC switch to disconnect the panels from the inverter except between 4-9 PM? Thanks in advance.

You can only do that with a battery, and the expense of a battery and it's wear, costs more than simply buying electricity.