SCE forcing me off TOU-D-A

[jasonvr]

I use the Rate Plan Comparison Tool at SCE.com switching to Tier Plan, it only took few days and it shows Domestic Tier Plan now. By using the "View Usage" function, I can check last 12 months daily usage. I am checking if under any given day I'll go over 400% to high usage, but all under 400%. We do not have the same heat as last year, so far so good since I only withdraw few hundred kWh from SCE in 2021 since I cut off the lots usage of EV and new AC unit. In general IMHO NEM 1.0 owners will probably better off stay at Tier Plan as the new TOU-D-Prime unless you have more than one EV or high usage on electricity.

Must be nice to have the tool actually work for you

Mine still either gives me an error or just refreshes back to the same page

[Mike90250]

Thank our governor for allowing alternative energy die on the vine. Only because of large corporation lobbies by utilities, are these changes coming .

[oldguy]

Probably my last post here on this thread (I have 2 or 3 above). I just got off the phone (again) with SCE as I had been told that I would be receiving a letter confirming my PTO (Sept 2017) + 5 would give me an extra 9 months (I'm NEM 2.0) until my "transition" (roughly translates to BOHICA!). The 'lead" at SCE told me on the Oct 20th call that I would receive a letter confirming that. I figured 20 days would be enough (today) so started calling again. I had gone TOU-D-A 2 years prior to solar install and that's what they sited today as my start time for TOU. I guess going solar was a mistake on my part as I won't have the equipment paid off, I can't go back to tiered, and my estimate on the 3 plans available are similar to post #49. My SCE bill before going solar was down from $250/mo to about $100/mo (utilizing LED lighting, TOU, etc). Now my bill will go back to what it was if not more as I can't go back to tiered.

Thank you SCE for letting me install some of your generation capabilities. Big Guys win again. I think anyone that is installing solar now is just a sucker...and will also allow for further rate changes to screw us even more. Count on it...

[silversaver]

I use the Rate Plan Comparison Tool at SCE.com switching to Tier Plan, it only took few days and it shows Domestic Tier Plan now. By using the "View Usage" function, I can check last 12 months daily usage. I am checking if under any given day I'll go over 400% to high usage, but all under 400%. We do not have the same heat as last year, so far so good since I only withdraw few hundred kWh from SCE in 2021 since I cut off the lots usage of EV and new AC unit. In general IMHO NEM 1.0 owners will probably better off stay at Tier Plan as the new TOU-D-Prime unless you have more than one EV or high usage on electricity.

[mmhendrie]

I'm a NEMA 1.0, originally began as a net producer, but after adding AC to my home became a net consumer. With my west facing panels and timed charging of my EV, I've been able to effectively use TOU-D-A and have substantial electric credits - of course, they cashed out to very little, but still, I paid nothing for electricity. As with you all, all the proposed plans from SCE just offer me options of "how much more do you want to pay....200% more, how about 300% more?" - really, there should be some controls that new rate plans can only have a max. % increase in cost. I can't think of a vendor in a non-monopoly environment that would even attempt the same. SCE is clearly drawing a circle around solar users, and going after us. Personally, I've always found them very difficult to deal with regarding solar - it took a complaint to the CPUC to get them to turn on my system after 5 months or me pressing them.

Anyhow, I think like most on this thread, I am seeing the option to move to the standard domestic rate tiers as the best way forward for me. My net consumption is probably going to be relatively low, and while I'd prefer not to pay anything, as I have been doing, obviously, there's no longer an option that would facilitate that. My concern with the domestic rate tiers is as follows....

My base allowance is 10kwh/ per day, so 3650kwh for the year. I will fall well under that amount in terms of consumption, so, initially i thought everything I consume would therefore be billed at the $0.26 lower rate. But, after thinking some more, I'm really not sure that will be that case. More so, as the allowance is stated as a daily rate, if we say today as a hypothetical example, and say I have relatively low generation, but high usage, so that I generate 6kwh, but use 20kwh, that's a net consumption of 14kwh, of which I assume 10kwh would be at the $0.26 rate, and the 4kwh would be at the $0.33 rate. Repeated over several low production fall/winter months, this could account for a sizable billing increase. What are people's thoughts on this? Am I understanding the billing correctly?
thanks!

[silversaver]

Thanks guys for the update. I guess no matter how SCE calculates the over production, it is better than 8 cents credit on TOU plan. The last 7 almost 8 years were the golden age with SCE since solar 2013.

BTW, the reason that I said I do not understand how SCE calculate the credit is because of using their Rate Plan Comparison Tool. Base on reading they only credit you 8 cents per kWh over production per TOU plan, but I see very similar credit in both TOU and Tier plans. I wonder why.

Can someone in the new TOUD-4-9 or TOU-D-Prime explain how SCE credit you on the power feed back to the grid?



difference.png

[jasonvr]

I am on NEM 1.0 and I do understand how tier works. Been on TOU-D-A for many years everything seems need a refreshment. The Tier Plan has baseline, 101%-400% as Tier 2 and over 400% as High Usage. My concern is more on hitting the Tier 2 and high usage. In general with my 7kW system during March to June, I might only bank 200-450kWh each month, but during rest of the year I might withdraw from 100kWh to 1000kWh after solar. The question is: how does SCE calculate the balance on account?

It seems reasonable to have 1kWh generate vs 1kWh consumed, but your generation will base on on Tier 1 and little of Tier 2. BUT your consumption usage might be base on Tier 2 or High Usage rate. That is the "part" I do not understand since there is no information about it.

I do believe it will be base on "balance" instead of net usage per kWh as many of you thinks. The 2020 usage is crazy high for us and we have replace new AC unit this year that seems to lower the usage quiet a bit + this year weren't as hot as last year.

I agree there is pretty poor information on how tiered will work with solar, particularly for things like over production and net production when you've already entered a tier beyond baseline.

As an example, let's just say your baseline is 100kWh for the month (no zone is actually this low, I know). And let's say your net consumption is 99kWh. I supposed that means that you get charged for the month for 99kWh at the baseline rate. But what happens when you net consumption gets to 101kWh. Presumably that 1kWh is charged at the next tier, but what about over generation at that point. Are you also compensated at the next tier rate?

Also, technically the baseline allocations are per day, not per month, and certainly not per billing month which may not align with calendar month which determines allocation.

And then there is even the overproduction case where your net consumption for the month is negative. Is the net cost based on the first tier, or are there negative tiers as well (i.e. if you generate -120% of your baseline do you get compensated as a negative tier 2 amount for 20% of that?)

I'd love for it to be as simple as SCE looking at your net consumption for the month vs the aggregated baseline allocation for the same period, but I really don't know if that is how it works.

[jasonvr]

Hi,

I am wondering what percentage your solar system cover you annual usage? My solar cover about 80% of my usage.

Thanks

It varies based on the year of course, but last year my generation covered 84.5% of my usage

[Ampster]

..... The question is: how does SCE calculate the balance on account?

.......

My SCE bills give me a running total. The calculation is the same at True Up as you have been seeing on TOU. If you have been a net exporter you will get a refund based on about $0.04 per KWh. In your case I believe you are correct it will be the balance owing at True Up which should be accumulated and shown on your statement each month.
Did that answer your question?

[silversaver]

If you are referring to SCE, tiered rates have been around a long time compared to Time of Use rates. Only some users can opt for the remaining tiered rates that are offered.
To answer your question about the True Up credit, that is part of the NEM version. It is the same for all rate plan. The only exception is if you are on a CCA.

I am on NEM 1.0 and I do understand how tier works. Been on TOU-D-A for many years everything seems need a refreshment. The Tier Plan has baseline, 101%-400% as Tier 2 and over 400% as High Usage. My concern is more on hitting the Tier 2 and high usage. In general with my 7kW system during March to June, I might only bank 200-450kWh each month, but during rest of the year I might withdraw from 100kWh to 1000kWh after solar. The question is: how does SCE calculate the balance on account?

It seems reasonable to have 1kWh generate vs 1kWh consumed, but your generation will base on on Tier 1 and little of Tier 2. BUT your consumption usage might be base on Tier 2 or High Usage rate. That is the "part" I do not understand since there is no information about it.

I do believe it will be base on "balance" instead of net usage per kWh as many of you thinks. The 2020 usage is crazy high for us and we have replace new AC unit this year that seems to lower the usage quiet a bit + this year weren't as hot as last year.

12 months usage.png

[Ampster]

If you are referring to SCE, tiered rates have been around a long time compared to Time of Use rates. Only some users can opt for the remaining tiered rates that are offered.
To answer your question about the True Up credit, that is part of the NEM version. It is the same for all rate plan. The only exception is if you are on a CCA.

[silversaver]

I have been reading about the new Tier plan, but I cannot find any information about generated credit. With my 7kW system, I am feeding back to grid from April to June. With the new Tier plan, am I just giving up on the power feeding back to grid? I am so glad I have replaced my old 5 tons unit with a new 16 SEER unit, very quiet and energy saving.

If anyone has answer on the generation credit, please let me know. I need to make the plan change before the 15th

Thanks!!!

[oldguy]

NEM 1.0 folks should have the answer to your question silversaver.

I'm NEM 2.0 (and therefore no going back to tiered) and am curious, given how I am will be forced next year to one of the newer SCE TOU plans, into which plan works best in that I can (and have been) easily shifting most of my power consumption. Obviously on TOU-D-A it was advantageous to offload as much consumption (washer/dryer/dishwasher/pool pump) as possible to 10 pm - 8 am. Now I will need to completely rethink my 4+ years of being on TOU-D-A. I do have my panels facing about 15 degrees west of due south so I can collect some during the early evening (4-9 pm or 5-8 pm) but I think I will like a 3 hour "avoidance" over 5 hour avoidance times.

I have 10 AC panels (rated 3.1 kW total) generating on average about 18 kWh per day from June 1 through Oct 1.

I live at the base of the PV peninsula in SoCal and my highest consumption days comes from AC window units during the 1-2 week heat blast we tend to get sometime in Sept or Oct (but didn't get this year!!). I'm wondering if I should just focus using as much consumption when my solar is producing well (which is most days). Maybe just setting those ACs to 60 degrees until the peak rates kick in and then shut down until peak rate ends. That's one thought. The new rate structures certainly make it more difficult to figure out how to minimize the electric bill while maintaining some degree of quality of life for want of better words.

After I post I will try to look for posts that discuss "best way to use the newer SCE TOU available rates" but if anyone knows exactly where posted please feel free to advise!

Also, agree that the SCE calculations are bogus (stated elsewhere on this site) because they'll just run your as-was data for a year through the new TOUs but without any consideration of potential load shifting (ie behavioral changes).

Yes, I also agree with above post...that utilities hate us...but I guess if shoe were on the other foot I could see why. It only dawned on me after getting the SCE transition letter a couple of months ago and cogitating on it. As I stated elsewhere, had I not had the 5 years on TOU-D-A I probably would not have gone solar as what I think is/was a 5-6 year payback may have gone to as much as 15 years. I haven't paid much attention to seeing how many installs/year in Ca there have been but I have to think going down rapidly.

[silversaver]

Mike,

Thank you for the update. I understand the tier system might be a better plan for me other than the new TOU plans, but I am wondering how does SCE calculates the the bill at end of 12 months? Since each month were different sometime my Summer usage is like 1030kWh net after solar. That is the part I do not get it.....

Does anyone knows this tier system?

Thanks

Update: I think I'll go with tier plan regardless since I still can and new TOU just buy high and sell low which just not making sense at all.

[Mike90250]

> new TOU plan from SCE which doesn't make too much sense for solar owner.

Because large utilities now hate residential solar and are shifting the rules to de-incentivize it's usage. Look what happened in AU this last summer, days ( two months) went by with no daytime residential sales because of all the solar.

https://reneweconomy.com.au/rooftop-solar-sends-victorian-power-prices-to-zero-every-day-for-two-months/

excerpt :
One cent a megawatt hour. That was the average price of wholesale power for most of the daytime hours in the state of Victoria in August and September.

Record amounts of renewable energy generation on Australia’s main grid, and an abundance of rooftop solar, sent the average spot electricity price in Victoria down to around zero for six-hours of each day in August and September, a new report has revealed.

The latest quarterly data from the Australian Energy Market Operator details a three-month period from July 01 to September 30 that started with volatile high prices, but ended with record levels of negative prices, a situation that arises when supply outstrips demand.