What would residential solar look like without net metering?

[ButchDeal]

I got quotes from three different installers.

A 4000watt net-metering grid-tied system is significantly more expensive than a DIY off-grid 4000watt system with 600ah battery-bank.

All three quotes came in far higher than the same size off-grid system.

I have posted this previously, multiple times.

Sorry to shatter your world, yet again.

So a new mustang costs more than a DIY golf cart too. It an apples to apples o grid off grid would still have the ongrid cheaper as no batteries are needed, no charge controller and no generator for ongrid.

Grid tie tie does not require them. DIY is cheaper than contractor turn key either on or off grid. Stop making BSstatements based on silly comparisons.

[ButchDeal]

I would imagine that a DIY grid-tied system would be cheaper than that DIY off-grid system.

damn state. Also off grid batteries would need to be replace often due to heavy cycling..

fYI I did a grid tie on grid system and heavily involved in lots of on and off grid systems.

[ButchDeal]

Our accountant would disagree

Then either you or your accountant is very confused about the terms. Fully depreciated does not mean that it has paid for itself. Lots of equipment purchased are fully depreciated and never pay for themselves.

[reader2580]

I got quotes from three different installers.

A 4000watt net-metering grid-tied system is significantly more expensive than a DIY off-grid 4000watt system with 600ah battery-bank.

You're comparing apples and oranges here. If you eliminate the labor and just buy materials only a grid tie system will cost less than an off grid system of the same size.

[J.P.M.]

I would imagine that a DIY grid-tied system would be cheaper than that DIY off-grid system.

You would be correct in most every situation. Bet too that grid tie is a lot less maint., care and feeding as well. I'd encourage those who believe differently to price both types out and see what they come out to and report back as well as letting us know how much time they spend babysitting their off grid system.

[organic farmer]

So a new mustang costs more than a DIY golf cart too. It an apples to apples o grid off grid would still have the ongrid cheaper as no batteries are needed, no charge controller and no generator for ongrid.

Grid tie tie does not require them. DIY is cheaper than contractor turn key either on or off grid. Stop making BSstatements based on silly comparisons.

There is no such thing s a DIY net-metering system in this state. So what is an apples to apples comparison?

Most solar power systems here are off-grid.

[organic farmer]

You're comparing apples and oranges here. If you eliminate the labor and just buy materials only a grid tie system will cost less than an off grid system of the same size.

But it is not possible to just buy components.

A net-metering system is requires permits and inspections.

Off-grid systems require none of those bribes.

[Kendalf]

But it is not possible to just buy components.

A net-metering system is requires permits and inspections.

Off-grid systems require none of those bribes.

(Earlier post got deleted because of too many links, so revised post without online store links)

Comparing the cost of just the components does at least provide some basis for cost comparison between grid-tied and off-grid systems. Out of curiosity, I looked at one of the large online solar system retailers and saw that they have a 4.35kw grid-tied solar system with Solaredge inverter and 15 Solarworld 290W panels for $7264. The same store sells an identically sized 4.35kW off-grid system with the same panels for $9888, but this does not include the cost of batteries. A bank of 24 EXIDE deep cycle batteries (27MDCST) would cost about $2,600, so the total cost of just the components for the off-grid system would be about $12,500, for a difference of over $5200 compared to the grid-tied system components. I find it hard to believe that the cost of permits and inspections would be this much.

[SupraLance]

In the calculations I did, smaller off-grid systems were more cost effective than grid-tie, but as the system gets larger grid-tie becomes cheaper than off-grid. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I have not seen any small, inexpensive, safe-to-use grid-tie inverters. I can put together a 1.2kw 24v off-grid system with 230ah of storage and 1000w inverter for about $1800 plus installation/wiring. Can you even put together an on-grid setup for less than $2000?

[SunEagle]

In the calculations I did, smaller off-grid systems were more cost effective than grid-tie, but as the system gets larger grid-tie becomes cheaper than off-grid. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I have not seen any small, inexpensive, safe-to-use grid-tie inverters. I can put together a 1.2kw 24v off-grid system with 230ah of storage and 1000w inverter for about $1800 plus installation/wiring. Can you even put together an on-grid setup for less than $2000?

I agree that a small off grid system may have a lower up front cost compared to a grid tie system but in the long run the cost to generate a kWH from an off grid system will be much more expensive then for a grid tie system because of the batteries.

[ButchDeal]

A net-metering system is requires permits and inspections.

Off-grid systems require none of those bribes.

Off grid often requires permits and inspections as well. If you install on an occupied home.

It just doesn't require an interconnect which is pretty low cost.

My permit was $75 and included the inspections.

[ButchDeal]

You would be correct in most every situation. Bet too that grid tie is a lot less maint., care and feeding as well. I'd encourage those who believe differently to price both types out and see what they come out to and report back as well as letting us know how much time they spend babysitting their off grid system.

The grid tie one will produce a lot more as well.

[ButchDeal]

There is no such thing s a DIY net-metering system in this state. So what is an apples to apples comparison?

Most solar power systems here are off-grid.

You can do a DIY net meter in almost all of the US. It just has to be done correctly and in a few locations you might need an electrician to do the AC connection.

However even if your statement was true you can also get a full off grid turn key quite almost anywhere in the US. Turnkey on grid and turnkey off grid.

[ButchDeal]

In the calculations I did, smaller off-grid systems were more cost effective than grid-tie, but as the system gets larger grid-tie becomes cheaper than off-grid. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I have not seen any small, inexpensive, safe-to-use grid-tie inverters. I can put together a 1.2kw 24v off-grid system with 230ah of storage and 1000w inverter for about $1800 plus installation/wiring. Can you even put together an on-grid setup for less than $2000?

yes you can get a grid tie for under $2k parts using micros. Example right at $2k

https://www.wholesalesolar.com/1894203/wholesale-solar/complete-systems/810-w-grid-tied-solar-system-with-3x-astronergy-270w-panels

Off grid real systems here is a comparison of parts.

both 1.08kw with 4 Astroenergy PV modules, ironridge racking, design etc.

Off grid is with Magnum inerter and requires batteries and really a generator as well just lets just add the batteries for $6,552 and of course will need batteries replaced every (lets be generouse) 8 years so three times in the 25 year life time. for a total of = $8,096

https://www.wholesalesolar.com/1890700/wholesale-solar/complete-systems/the-cabin-1.08-kw-4-panel-astronergy-off-grid-solar-system

On Grid uses enphase micros so lets count on replacing one over the 25 year lifetime, and adding the envoy for a total of $3,171

https://www.wholesalesolar.com/1894204/wholesale-solar/complete-systems/1.1-kw-grid-tied-solar-system-with-4x-astronergy-270w-panels

The Grid tie will produce considerably more as well, for less than hale the up front cost

[J.P.M.]

The grid tie one will produce a lot more as well.

A bit off topic but I suspect a lot but by no means all off grid DIY is done by those who are less concerned about production quantity than about self reliance. Same for the priorities of safety and sound design taking a back seat in the back of the bus.