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9 kW solar, 42kWh LFP storage. EV owner since 2012 -
Ampster: Note the font I used.
And apparently that always was the base price if you believe the advertising since the model 3 came out. But from what I read (Clean Technica, 08/23/2018), few, if any it seems, could get away for less than ~ 50 large up until now (maybe), mostly because up until recently/now (maybe), the only model 3s avail. came with extended range battery (add $9K) and premium upgrade package (add $5K). I read the reasons why that was the reality. Those reasons seem, to me anyway, driven by more of the usual Musk B.S.
Car & driver confirms the ~ $35K base price, but suggests less real range than the 220 miles the base $35K model claims (C & D got 84 MPGe, on test vs. claimed 123 - 130 MPGe). C & D also thought the interior was kind of sparse.
But, and to attempt some objectivity, C & D got an observed MPGe of 96 out of a Bolt, vs. ~ 110 - 128 MPGe per claims, and didn't think much of the Chevy interior either.
As for competitive pricing, the Chevy bolt comes in at ~ $37.5 K, so the model 3 does indeed have a lower MSRP. I'd suggest that whether or not the features are similar is a matter of some opinion.
Just me, but if I had $50K to spend as most everyone currently owning/driving a model 3 has done, and looks like a price for a "well equipped " model 3 (or other entry level EV for that matter), I might try to find a tricked out but slightly used model S for +/- $50K or so if I was sold on Tesla.
If I had a more modest car budget, and/or I wasn't confident/didn't like the Tesla product for whatever reason, I might think the Chevy would be worth a sniff, but know that base prices will get me a base vehicle and no more.Comment
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Car and driver tested the Model 3 on a cold day. They even said in the article that they wanted to test it in warm weather. You can not compare the MPGe's that C & D tested. Cold weather is the downfall of an EV. The Model 3 is more efficient than the Bolt. I own a Bolt and I have tested this with my friends Model 3.
If you live in a CARB state, the Chevy Bolt is an amazing deal if you don't mind the small seats. You can't negotiate Tesla prices. However, the Bolt in California can be talked down by about $6000 to $10,000 under MSRP. It is a compliance car and worth the 3.9 ZEV credits that they get from the Bolt, even if sold at a loss. If you are looking at a value EV in California, negotiating for a Bolt is the way to go. Please don't buy a Leaf, if you want a Leaf just lease it.
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I was referencing the 2018 C & D review of a 2018 model 3, and not the later C & D review which did mention the lower amb. temp. test conditions for that road test.
I don't doubt ambient temp. (and perhaps the presence of poorer road conditions) will affect EV range in ways EV makers may not want to talk about, but nothing was said in the review I was using/citing about ambient test conditions.
And, who said anything about a Leaf ?
Seems to me EV's have a ready made market of willing buyers who may be more willing than potential buyers of conventional ICE vehicles buyers to see what they want to see and believe what they want to believe in ways that may twist reality to conform to their wish list whether or not such realities matches what they buy. More cases of too much emotion trumping too little logical thinking/reasoning.
Ahh, the power of advertising/propaganda.Comment
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Advertising? Show me a Tesla ad that does that?
I think what you said is likely true of many consumers. You seem to be suggesting EV are more gullible than ICE drivers. Any statistics to prove that?
I recall a Business Insider study a few years ago that suggested EV buyers were richer and smarter than other car buyers.
9 kW solar, 42kWh LFP storage. EV owner since 2012Comment
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I always throw in don't buy a Nissan Leaf when I talk about EV's. They are doing such a disservice to EV's because their passively cooled batteries DO degrade and our hurting the adoption.
As for buying an EV, it is the smart choice in warmer climates. Until you own an EV for a few years, you really don't understand how much better they are. They are more responsive, quieter, basically maintenance free, cheaper to operate, less moving parts so less time in repairs, safer to drive with regen braking, and no more visits to gas stations. On the occasional long trip I have, it is a bit of a nuisance, but I can eat a good meal when the car is charging. The infrastructure in California is good for any EV and long trips are no longer as scary as they were two years ago.
After you drive an EV for a year you will understand why almost every EV owner wants to switch entirely to electric. There are great choices with the Bolt, Tesla, Kona EV, Niro EV, and soon to be Soul EV that all have 240 plus range and about the average car price. The ICE cars won't go away, because in cold climates I still wouldn't touch an EV. Range is severely reduced and the heat of an ICE engine keeps ice from building up in places you would never expect.Comment
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Yes, that was a particularly dumb thing to do. I am still waiting for J.P.M. to show me a Tesla advertisement. LOL9 kW solar, 42kWh LFP storage. EV owner since 2012Comment
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This is my favorite EV ad:
It wouldn't convince me to buy a Leaf because I agree with discodanman45 I have had luck using Leaf modules in a stationary application with a hybrid inverter.9 kW solar, 42kWh LFP storage. EV owner since 2012Comment
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While I can't find a specific Tesla car ad I can say the News channels seem to provide a lot of coverage when it comes to "breaking news".
I understand there is a new model coming out called the Y. I don't know if this is an attempt to draw more people back to Tesla to avoid the bad publicity they are getting for the cost over runs and delays or if Tesla really wants to find the right vehicle to meet a specific demand.
What the model Y has done is push down the stock value. Maybe that is some new way of getting people to purchase the product.
One thing I understand is the value of an EV seems to be higher in places like CA then FL. Maybe it is because the gas prices are so high on the West coast or maybe people there like to drink the cool-aid. While I am still interested in an EV or Hybrid I will sit on the fence and wait for the smoke to clear and see who will make a product I can afford and can use in my daily travels.Comment
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Since I'm not your chattel, you'll be waiting a long time.
But, if you are looking for Tesla print media ads to satisfy your curiosity, you may have a hard time finding one yourself. Reason: (And this may come as a surprise) Tesla has little to no advertising budget. The little I've read and perhaps learned is that through Tesla's developed (and admired it seems) ability to manipulate the press and electronic media, they get a lot of what is, in effect, free advertising electronic media and other news/media coverage for little or no expense. Pretty slick huh ? Or did you already know that ?
I appreciate varied points of view, including yours - but certainly not because I agree with all of it. And I enjoy learning from spirited discussion as much as anyone - maybe even more than most.
But I've just about given up hope of any productive discussion with you. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here and assume you're not simply quibbling for it's own sake or for the sake of your ego. But, IMO only, I don't believe you have the necessary abilities to understand what I write without having it being spoon fed to you.
If you don't understand what I'm writing, well, I'm tired of explaining things to you as I would explain things to a 6 year old. If you are simply quibbling, put your attitude where the sun doesn't shine.
I came here with the idea of learning things, seeing/reading about what other's have done and learned and (hopefully without too much presumptive arrogance) perhaps improving the content of this forum by sharing some of what I think I might know about alternate energy.
My exchanges with you have met none of those goals.
Also, I believe my input to most of your stuff has probably not improved the quality of forum content, not to mention wasting my time.
I'll take more than 50% of the blame for this non productive, B.S. pissing match we (you and I) seem to have drifted off into. And, for the sake of forum content and quality, I'll do what I believe needs to be done from my end to correct our shared deficiency. I'll also be more selective in the future with respect to what I comment of your posts and information.
How you see this situation and what you do about it is not my concern.Comment
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You won't find any because they don't advertise. I have to admit I was kidding J.P.M. when I asked hime to show me a Tesla ad. It was in response to his remark that EV owners are gullible and believe EV ads.. While I can call myself a Tesla "Fanboy" I do think Elon Musk is ADHD and loves taunting the SEC. That may be his strategy to get free publicity.
The Model Y has been in the works for some time. I think stock has one of the highest short positions and that explains the huge beta in the stock price. While I consider myself a fan of the vehicles, the stock has no place in my conservative portfolio. A lot of the FUD is because the company is in a rapid growth mode, constantly misses deadlines but has a cult following amongst owners. The Tesla Motors Club Forium is where one can see that in real time. While dissent is also tolerated on that forum, the Tesla Energy section is full of interesting insights into the changes taking place in the market for electricity.I understand there is a new model coming out called the Y. I don't know if this is an attempt to draw more people back to Tesla to avoid the bad publicity they are getting for the cost over runs and delays or if Tesla really wants to find the right vehicle to meet a specific demand.
What the model Y has done is push down the stock value. Maybe that is some new way of getting people to purchase the product.
Yes, that has to do with several factors. High gas prices being just one. A $2500 rebate for Clean Vehicles and a $500 to $800 additional rebate administered through the Independently Owned Utilities are other factors. Those are a result of liberal politics. California was also pioneer in ZEV mandates so we also have a lot of Compliance vehicles that are subsidized by the manufacturers because the credits earned allow them to sell the profitable gas guzzlers.One thing I understand is the value of an EV seems to be higher in places like CA then FL. Maybe it is because the gas prices are so high on the West coast or maybe people there like to drink the cool-aid. While I am still interested in an EV or Hybrid I will sit on the fence and wait for the smoke to clear and see who will make a product I can afford and can use in my daily travels.
I found it symbolic that you used the phrases "drink the cool-aid" and "wait for the smoke to clear" in the same paragraph. None of my rant is intended to make anyone feel bad for not sharing the views of the majority of Californians. One's viewpoint often depends on where one is standing. I grew up in LA in the fifties when the smog was so bad that your lungs hurt and your eyes smarted. You literally could not see the snow on Mt Baldy from the valley below unless it had just rained and the air was clear only for a few days. The health benefits of cleaner air is one of the main reasons I have become "green" even though much of my politics have been traditionally conservative.Last edited by Ampster; 03-16-2019, 07:15 PM.9 kW solar, 42kWh LFP storage. EV owner since 2012Comment
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I would have started a new thread but I couldn't find a suitable heading so I thought I would post it here since the OP has long gone and this thread has evolved/hijacked into a cantankerous discussion about the gullibility of EV owners. J.P.M. this one is for you. LOL
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ite-out-of-bmw9 kW solar, 42kWh LFP storage. EV owner since 2012Comment
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No doubt. But that is true of every marketing demographic / advertising program out there.
Buy a big truck! It will carry all your tools, two tons of rebar, and take you and your buddies, complete with their ATV's and coolers, out into the middle of the desert where you will enjoy a manly night of tearing across a moonlit playa. What? Never carry tools or rebar? You don't have an ATV, or friends like that? Well, buy a truck anyway and you'll surely get all that real soon! And in the meantime you can drive it to work and people will THINK you are like that.
No? Then buy this fancy luxury car! You'll be able to pull up to swanky restaurants in the city with a beautiful woman in the passenger seat, and the other clientele (and especially the valet parking guys) will be jealous of your discerning purchase. And again, maybe you don't have that beautiful woman yet, but get the car and the women will surely come, like it says in the commercial.
Or perhaps you're a new car buyer without a lot of cash. Then get this low priced but hipster car, and soon you'll be driving through the up-and-coming sections of town with the windows down, your friends listening to the hottest hits on your pretty-great-but-not-too-expensive sound system that is the envy of the guys on the sidewalk. For only $500 down! $500 is nothing.
Advertising is the art of twisting reality to make people think they want - nay, desperately need - what you are selling. And agencies have gotten VERY good at it.
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