Help!! I am BANNED for having Solar! Triangular Module??

[J.P.M.]

No doubt. But that is true of every marketing demographic / advertising program out there.

Buy a big truck! It will carry all your tools, two tons of rebar, and take you and your buddies, complete with their ATV's and coolers, out into the middle of the desert where you will enjoy a manly night of tearing across a moonlit playa. What? Never carry tools or rebar? You don't have an ATV, or friends like that? Well, buy a truck anyway and you'll surely get all that real soon! And in the meantime you can drive it to work and people will THINK you are like that.

No? Then buy this fancy luxury car! You'll be able to pull up to swanky restaurants in the city with a beautiful woman in the passenger seat, and the other clientele (and especially the valet parking guys) will be jealous of your discerning purchase. And again, maybe you don't have that beautiful woman yet, but get the car and the women will surely come, like it says in the commercial.

Or perhaps you're a new car buyer without a lot of cash. Then get this low priced but hipster car, and soon you'll be driving through the up-and-coming sections of town with the windows down, your friends listening to the hottest hits on your pretty-great-but-not-too-expensive sound system that is the envy of the guys on the sidewalk. For only $500 down! $500 is nothing.

Advertising is the art of twisting reality to make people think they want - nay, desperately need - what you are selling. And agencies have gotten VERY good at it.

+1.

Not a complaint by any means, but I took a pay cut to switch from peddling to engineering. The folks who wrote my commission checks thought I was pretty good at selling.

The above reality bending dream creations as you describe them are what looks to me like examples of every peddler's stock in trade. I just cut to the chase in my last sentence.

Part of my point was - and not trying to paint all EV buyers/wannabes with the same brush - it seems to me more than the usual percentage of EV buyers/wanabes are (pre) brainwashed. That is, the greenwash media and the rest of the usual suspects have done a better than usual job of tapping into the herd/lemming aspects of group identity/behavior, and of creating the illusion of necessity.

FWIW, that's not a knock, just an observation. I'm as dumb/brainwashed as the rest (easiest mark to sell is another peddler). As confirmation, I've got my mind set on the Porsche EV. Biggest worry for me is I'll be dead before the Porsche hits the showrooms. Only difference w/ me is I just think I see it in myself more than I suspect a bunch of 20 something nerds see it in themselves, but opinions vary.

[Ampster]

............
Part of my point was - and not trying to paint all EV buyers/wannabes with the same brush - it seems to me more than the usual percentage of EV buyers/wanabes are (pre) brainwashed. That is, the greenwash media and the rest of the usual suspects have done a better than usual job of tapping into the herd/lemming aspects of group identity/behavior, and of creating the illusion of necessity.
.........
FWIW, that's not a knock, just an observation. I'm as dumb/brainwashed as the rest (easiest mark to sell is another peddler). As confirmation, I've got my mind set on the Porsche EV. Biggest worry for me is I'll be dead before the Porsche hits the showrooms. Only difference w/ me is I just think I see it in myself more than I suspect a bunch of 20 something nerds see it in themselves, but opinions vary.

Brainwashed? Illusion of necessity? How about thoughtful and forward thinking?
Show us some examples of the brainwashing your speak of? The 400 lurkers who visit this site are waiting with baited breath to hear your logic.
Forget your bias about the greenwash media. Try looking at the facts of owning an EV. (at least in California and possibly other parts of the world.)
- Less cost per mile to operate.
- Less maintenance.
- Fewer moving parts.
- Less thermodynamic waste from the heat of 20,000 explosions per minute just to get you from one place to another.
- Charge every night at low rates and start your day with a full tank of Coulombes.
- Safer that ICE vehicles. (more fires per miles driven in ICE vehicles than in EVs)

Porsche is brought to you by the originators of Dieselgate.You are right, you might be dead before there is one at your local dealer. VW Group has made more predictions and missed deadlines than Elon Musk ever dreamed of. As I have said before, I am a Tesla Fanboy and Elon Musk has not delivered in a timely manner. But in comparison to the VW Group, at least he has delivered. Over 200,000 cars for a startup. To their credit the Audi Etron is worth watching. There are a lot of other options besides Tesla and Porsche. My next EV will probably be one of those other options.

I don't expect a response since you continue to make baseless claims and have chosen to remain silent when asked to substantiate them.

[Ampster]

Since I'm not your chattel, you'll be waiting a long time.

But, if you are looking for Tesla print media ads to satisfy your curiosity, you may have a hard time finding one yourself. Reason: (And this may come as a surprise) Tesla has little to no advertising budget. The little I've read and perhaps learned is that through Tesla's developed (and admired it seems) ability to manipulate the press and electronic media, they get a lot of what is, in effect, free advertising electronic media and other news/media coverage for little or no expense. Pretty slick huh ? Or did you already know that ?

I appreciate varied points of view, including yours - but certainly not because I agree with all of it. And I enjoy learning from spirited discussion as much as anyone - maybe even more than most.

But I've just about given up hope of any productive discussion with you. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here and assume you're not simply quibbling for it's own sake or for the sake of your ego. But, IMO only, I don't believe you have the necessary abilities to understand what I write without having it being spoon fed to you.

If you don't understand what I'm writing, well, I'm tired of explaining things to you as I would explain things to a 6 year old. If you are simply quibbling, put your attitude where the sun doesn't shine.

I came here with the idea of learning things, seeing/reading about what other's have done and learned and (hopefully without too much presumptive arrogance) perhaps improving the content of this forum by sharing some of what I think I might know about alternate energy.

My exchanges with you have met none of those goals.

Also, I believe my input to most of your stuff has probably not improved the quality of forum content, not to mention wasting my time.

I'll take more than 50% of the blame for this non productive, B.S. pissing match we (you and I) seem to have drifted off into. And, for the sake of forum content and quality, I'll do what I believe needs to be done from my end to correct our shared deficiency. I'll also be more selective in the future with respect to what I comment of your posts and information.

How you see this situation and what you do about it is not my concern.

I think you take this too seriously. I was fortunate to get a reasonable intellect from my parents and they paid for a great formal education. As a result, I have the tools to teach myself informally for the rest of my life. Dont spend any time fretting over whether I need to be spoon fed.

[J.P.M.]

I think you take this too seriously. I was fortunate to get a reasonable intellect from my parents and they paid for a great formal education. As a result, I have the tools to teach myself informally for the rest of my life. Dont spend any time fretting over whether I need to be spoon fed.

I don't really give the north end of a southbound rat what you think. Except to point out any errors you may make that might cause problems, I'm done wasting time on your stuff. I can be more productive watching paint dry or listening to my beard grow.

A.M.F.

[jflorey2]

FWIW, that's not a knock, just an observation. I'm as dumb/brainwashed as the rest (easiest mark to sell is another peddler). As confirmation, I've got my mind set on the Porsche EV. Biggest worry for me is I'll be dead before the Porsche hits the showrooms. Only difference w/ me is I just think I see it in myself more than I suspect a bunch of 20 something nerds see it in themselves, but opinions vary.

I would suggest you may not be so brainwashed.

I'm one of the coordinators for our EV program at my company. We have over 200 people with EV's - and the number is climbing all the time. It's gotten to the point where access to charging is a big deal. We have almost 100 charging spots now, most of which are just outlets for people to plug into. And we will be expanding that.

And thus I hear from a lot of people who have bought an EV, are thinking of buying an EV, or want to know what all the fuss is about. And since my company is mostly engineers (still) they are mostly engineering (and cost) considerations. They include:

- they are easier to maintain
- they drive more smoothly - no shifting or idling
- they can charge for free at work
- some of them can get HOV stickers to help with traffic
- they don't generate any exhaust in our garages and are quieter (_mostly_ a good thing)
- they outperform ICE cars from an acceleration and cornering perspective

Downsides:

- Smaller pure EV's (like older Leafs) give people range anxiety
- Charging is a hassle (arguments break out in email all the time over who unplugged who)

But overall most people are happy with them

EV's are far from taking over ICE cars, and I don't believe all the "within 10 years most cars will be EV's!" predictions. But I do believe that most of the people who got them at my company are now happy with them, and are glad they made the decision - even if some of the impetus to buy them came from good marketing.

[J.P.M.]

I would suggest you may not be so brainwashed.

I'm one of the coordinators for our EV program at my company. We have over 200 people with EV's - and the number is climbing all the time. It's gotten to the point where access to charging is a big deal. We have almost 100 charging spots now, most of which are just outlets for people to plug into. And we will be expanding that.

And thus I hear from a lot of people who have bought an EV, are thinking of buying an EV, or want to know what all the fuss is about. And since my company is mostly engineers (still) they are mostly engineering (and cost) considerations. They include:

- they are easier to maintain
- they drive more smoothly - no shifting or idling
- they can charge for free at work
- some of them can get HOV stickers to help with traffic
- they don't generate any exhaust in our garages and are quieter (_mostly_ a good thing)
- they outperform ICE cars from an acceleration and cornering perspective

Downsides:

- Smaller pure EV's (like older Leafs) give people range anxiety
- Charging is a hassle (arguments break out in email all the time over who unplugged who)

But overall most people are happy with them

EV's are far from taking over ICE cars, and I don't believe all the "within 10 years most cars will be EV's!" predictions. But I do believe that most of the people who got them at my company are now happy with them, and are glad they made the decision - even if some of the impetus to buy them came from good marketing.

Thank you for the information, and what looks like informed and mostly reality based opinion and observation. Makes sense to me.

Some thoughts and a question or two I had as I read your post and at the risk of ruffling the feathers on the snowflake skin of a lot of non technical/engineering types who will read this: It reads to me that being mostly engineering types most or at least a good part of your sample would not be considered random and not representative of the great unwashed masses. They may be an exception to my opinions about EV buyers and their lack of thought when buying stuff.

On your coworkers and how they may be different than a representative sample of other EV buyers/wannabes
:
- They are probably not indigent and may manage their finances fairly well.
- They are, as a group, probably more analytical than the average vehicle buyer/leasee when they make major purchases/commitments.
- Probably more Teslas than leafs ? Any comment on the vehicle mix or the distribution of the cost of the EV's they drive?
- I'd bet your coworkers are still susceptible to group identity/peer pressure and the culture inspired and perpetuated link between what we drive and who we are. Most engineering types I know are, but usually deny it.
- What's the approx. ratio of EV owners who work at your facility to total employment at your facility ?
- SWAG on ratio of EV wannabes (like me) to actual EV owners ?

And, I'm pretty sure I am brainwashed. First yr. production of the Porsche Taycan is sold out. Probably better for me so I don't wind up being a beta tester. Still, being in the distribution portion of my life, that pissed me off when I read it.

I should have speculated and bought 10-20 reservations to purchase a few months ago and be a car reservation scalper when production starts, especially since they stopped taking reservations.

Regards,

[discodanman45]

I think most people in science and engineering are excited by new technology. I went into my EV purchase excited to charge my car like a phone. I am a physics instructor and I appreciate the efficiency and the regen ability of electric motors. Having a simple electric drivetrain is also a simplistic idea. After owning EV's for two years I will never go back. Tesla's are even neater because you are driving a vehicle that gets better all the time. What other car can you buy that is better two years after the purchase date? My friends Model 3 just got a 5% increase in performance, a 5% increase in range, and now can charge at double of the original charging rate. All this was done from OTA updates.

[jflorey2]

- They are probably not indigent and may manage their finances fairly well.
- They are, as a group, probably more analytical than the average vehicle buyer/leasee when they make major purchases/commitments.

It has been a running joke that no one on our EV mailing lists buys anything without creating at least two lengthy email threads on range, or incentives, or charging locations, or battery life.

- Probably more Teslas than leafs ? Any comment on the vehicle mix or the distribution of the cost of the EV's they drive?

Teslas make up about 20% and rising, mostly model 3's. Leafs about 20% and dropping. (Initially most were Leafs) 30% Fiat 500e's because there were lease deals that were incredibly good on them; they aren't great cars, but for the price they were hard to beat. ($49 a month all-in.)

Those are the pure EV's. There are a fair number of PHEV's but they don't usually park on "charger row" so it's harder to be accurate with them, but it seems like #1 is the Volt and #2 is the Prime.

- I'd bet your coworkers are still susceptible to group identity/peer pressure and the culture inspired and perpetuated link between what we drive and who we are. Most engineering types I know are, but usually deny it.

Most likely true.

- What's the approx. ratio of EV owners who work at your facility to total employment at your facility ?
- SWAG on ratio of EV wannabes (like me) to actual EV owners ?

There are 660 people on the EV mailing list; pretty much all are EV owners or wannabees. Best guess is at least half of them own an EV. We have 13,000 people here. So about 5% owners and wannabes. (big SWAG there)

[Yet another Yeti]

Real triangular pv-modules are still handycrafted available .

Axsun , for example , manufactures such .

Some time ago I was stumbling over an Italian manufacturer , too ,
but have forgotten that company's name .

[J.P.M.]

It has been a running joke that no one on our EV mailing lists buys anything without creating at least two lengthy email threads on range, or incentives, or charging locations, or battery life.

Teslas make up about 20% and rising, mostly model 3's. Leafs about 20% and dropping. (Initially most were Leafs) 30% Fiat 500e's because there were lease deals that were incredibly good on them; they aren't great cars, but for the price they were hard to beat. ($49 a month all-in.)

Those are the pure EV's. There are a fair number of PHEV's but they don't usually park on "charger row" so it's harder to be accurate with them, but it seems like #1 is the Volt and #2 is the Prime.

Most likely true.

There are 660 people on the EV mailing list; pretty much all are EV owners or wannabees. Best guess is at least half of them own an EV. We have 13,000 people here. So about 5% owners and wannabes. (big SWAG there)

Thank you. Interesting and informative. Much appreciated.

[jflorey2]

Thank you. Interesting and informative. Much appreciated.

No worries.

Apologies to all for taking this thread on somewhat of a left turn.

[Ampster]

...............,
There are 660 people on the EV mailing list; pretty much all are EV owners or wannabees. Best guess is at least half of them own an EV. We have 13,000 people here. So about 5% owners and wannabes. (big SWAG there)

As far as I can tell 5% of the cars in California may be EVs. I couldn't find more than one source for that data and I believe the number includes some hybrids like the Volt and Plug in Prius. That data may also be 6 months old.

[J.P.M.]

No worries.

Apologies to all for taking this thread on somewhat of a left turn.

Not sure you didn't take it where it was already headed anyway. Even so, your road map is straighter.

[SunEagle]

As far as I can tell 5% of the cars in California may be EVs. I couldn't find more than one source for that data and I believe the number includes some hybrids like the Volt and Plug in Prius. That data may also be 6 months old.

I believe there are other "hot spots" across the US that EVs are starting to increase in %. While in Europe an EV seems to now be the main stream for a lot of countries.

Now if only we could get those low prices and rebates here in Fl.