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So after trying to convince me out of solar because you don't think the payback is worth it, you guys want me to go with more expensive companies just because of the anti-sc stance? What am I suppose to do here? SC is right now is giving me the lowest price for top end hardware with the longest warranty. I have been communicating with SC via text, so everything is in writing.Comment
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So, about that warranty.... here is a forum member who experienced how that plays out in the real world. (I'm sure I can find other stories if I dig around, if you'd like).
https://www.solarpaneltalk.com/forum...913#post333913
Here is another:
If Solar City is simply price matching someone else's bid, but trying to win you over with the warranty, I'd be looking for some first hand accounts of successful warranty service before pulling the trigger. (and even then, be looking close at the reasons why the warranty service was needed... did SC create their own problem to have to come back and fix later?)CS6P-260P/SE3000 - http://tiny.cc/ed5ozxComment
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This forum is sponsored by and many members are independent solar installers. JPM is one of the few voices of reason without a dog in the fight. Many believe that if the ROI is too long, solar is a bad idea. They are trying to avoid someone installing solar, selling their house and losing all their money. Then they tell everyone they know how bad solar is. Or, they sign a document explained verbally with the opposite in writing. Or, they get solar because they don't know what else to do. Perform due diligence and do what you think is best.
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I noticed SC seemed to be changing there method a bit, I remember another post from a few months back basically saying the same thing that SC were now competitive on purchase prices for systems, up until recently they were clearly not interested in selling systems they want the recurring revenue model, or wanted it, it appears their position has shifted I wonder if this is only in certain states or all states??Comment
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I guess I'll let my prior posts stand on their own.
Singuy: I wish you all the best luck, but you are a textbook case of what most folks do wrong. You are running from mostly self inflicted high energy bills and throwing money at the problem rather than moving toward sane energy use and lower electric bills. Then, you let the low price syndrome make things worse. Low buck does not mean best value. That's another way, IMO only, you are screwing yourself. Have you done due diligence with vendors ? Looks like not if you think SolarCity's the way to a quality job. The vendor's quality, reputation and integrity are as important as the quality of the material. And you're buying from SolarCity. Have you thought about anything beyond initial cost ?
Then, you go and do exactly the thing that will lock in no chance for a lower price: Sharing quotes with vendors. Before I changed careers to engineering, I was a peddler, and made a good living. One thing salespeople ALWAYS try to get is what the competition is quoting. It's like gold. Go one dollar less to buyers with your tactic and you're in - quality and service just took a back seat and you did it to yourself.
Ten years from now, you probably won't remember what you paid or that one bid was a few pennies/STC Watt less than another, but the quality of the job,or more importantly, the lack of it lack of quality, will still be on your roof.
Try this for your next big purchase: Ask for bids/quotes with all the terms and conditions you want written down. Get all the bids, and for God's sake know what your needs are and what's available - get informed before you call bidders. Ask questions you already know the answers to. That means being informed. It also means you'll learn what the vendors don't know. If you had done that initially as others here alluded to, you'd find out just how abysmally ignorant most salespeople are about their product. Then, review what you learned of vendor quality and take your best shot at who is best suited to do the work. Call the chosen vendor negotiate any additions/changed terms you can negotiate. Still no talk of price. After you get most of what you think you can get while still keeping job quality intact, tell the salesperson you're prepared to sign a contract with all negotiated terms as just discussed - and subsequently written into a firm contract - NOW ! for a price that's about 10% less than the lowest bid you've received. Then, pull out your checkbook and write a check for $1,000 to cover the deposit - but don't sign it yet - and hang onto it until you see a contract with all the terms you've negotiated in writing. Continue negotiating until you either sign a contract or thank the salesperson for their time and show them the door. Continue on to the next most qualified vendor and adjust your negotiating technique. Stay professional and courteous. Smile. Think like your opponent. Remember, there's always another vendor.
Take what you want of the above. Scrap the rest.Comment
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depending how popular this forum is (how high it is in Google ranking) one can come and try to create better image for a business by 'running' few very satisfied customers or make a deal for them without them even being aware as this is open forum and given details installers can match new members from here to their current quotes and beat every other deal just for few but very public cases. Hope this is just my ordinary paranoia.
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So how exactly can I judge a local contractor when
1. There are so few reviews
2. Reviewers are probably just as ill-informed as I am
So very few people got solar 5-10 years ago in FL because we have very poor and nonexistent state credits, so the ROI 5 years ago was in the line of "never". Long term reliability and reviews are far and few in-between.
I just want something reliable and well priced. I'm not willing to pay a premium for unpromised "better install job" because who to say these locals are not just as bad as SC? How would we know that SC didn't change after Tesla's take over..and since they are new in town..who to say they are not upping their game in the area to win customers trust?
There are a lot of assumptions being thrown around. Local installers have their risk. They may not be around in 5-10 years for warranty or any customer service. Something I have to think about..bad customer service still trumps no customer service
I am mainly going with SC because they are the only ones offering me premium panels at the lowest price..and I really want the highest efficiency panels due to my explanation from first post.
I have someone who lives in the house who pays rent..so I can't be limiting other people's energy usage. We never use the dish washer and I try my best to limit ac usage when I'm the only one home..but the wife is not going to lay her wet laundry in the sun.Comment
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Singuy, I am just here to help, not trying to judge anyone. I was in the same situation as you. I have tenant who live with us. Our house have no attic and it can get more than 100 degrees into the house without AC. See my post "Help me choose a system" When I first put up that post, JPM and others are doing the same to me, want me to read the book and research more before I pull the trigger. In fact, I already researched a whole lot and get lots of quotes before I found this site. I already know about the NEM 2.0 and how SCE bill me. I been studying about solar every night for almost a month before I came here. However I can say one thing, these people are here to help, if not they won't even waste time here. Just that, sometimes they assume we didn't know anything about Solar or we didn't do research. I did learn a few things from them. I think in order for us to help you, we should know more about your situation. JPM was talking about we should find ways to lower down our consumption in other ways before thinking about solar. He is right because there are something we can do, maybe we just didn't find out or we didn't research it enough. For example, in my situation, my house have no attic. All my lights are energy efficient, it will cost more to install attic and insulation for the whole house than to install the system that I was quoted at. I was already going to install mini-split A/C even after solar since that system is only 5.94 KW and only cover around 75% of my usage. However I was pretty tight financially because I was going to pay cash for the system since financing it for 8 years means paying 75%. I didn't pull the trigger even after everything was sign because they have to add additional $1000 to relocate the panels that are required by the city. I just installed the 2 mini split A/C last Sunday and I was happy about it. I did some research and thought it will only lower my consumption by 1 KW per hr for a total of 10 KW each day. Instead, when I check the meter to compare the usage from central A/C and 2 mini system turned on at the same time. I was shocked, because it lowered by 1.5 KWH and during weekday, only 1 system will be turn on, and it was at 1.1-1.3 KW compare to 3.3-3.7 with the central A/C that combined with other usage. so look like I am saving more than 2 KW per hr during the weekday, I will be saving 500KWH per month during summer just installing those 2 mini split system that costs only $1500. So in order for us to help you, can you tell us the following?
- How many people are in the house and how many are renters?
-How old is your A/C, is it central air, how many Seer? How many hours does it turn on everyday?
-Who are at home during the weekday?
-Is your house insulated and does it have attic?
-Find out why you are using so much electricity, with a 11KW system, you are looking at least 1600 KWH during summer and at least 16000 KWH per year.Comment
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1. 3 adults and 1 child living in the house
2. 3 Central a/c units. 13 Sears units. One unit powers 700 sqft bonus room upstairs which is set to 85 all times. One 5 t unit is on at 77 from 7pm - 11 am. Last unit is on from 12am - 8am set to 79.
3. Pool pump set to use 240w/hr x 8 hr. I just recently reduced it down to 120w/ hr.
4. Attic has a r34 rating. I also have radiant barriers.
5. Windows are not energy efficient ones. I also don't have foam in our concrete center block walls.
6. House is 10 years old, 4400 sqaureft with 11 ft ceilings throughout.
7. This months electric bill used 2000kwh. Last month was 2400kwh. Last year same time with 2 less people and no pool used 1400kwh. The extra renter plus now new baby has me turning on the a/c almost double..plus more laundry
8. 90% of my lights are led. Renter has a ceiling fan light that he uses for 5hr/day that uses 300w/hr(halogen). He likes his room super Nova bright.
9. Spring months we use 1000-1400 kwh. Winter months we are down to 900-1200 kwh. I have an indoor propane heater I use to increase temps in the master only before heading to bed..then I use an small electric heater overnight. Wife complains about this method a lot but in FL it's only for a few weeks out of the year.
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Look like a lot of consumption are from your central A/C and pool. I don't know is it necessary to turn the 2 central A/C on at night. 7-11 AM set at 77 degree and 12 AM - 8 AM at 79 degree consume a lot of electricity. I don't know how the weather is in Florida, in Los Angeles, we never turn on the A/C at night. The A/C was only turned on from 10 AM-8PM depending on the weather. If you can open the window during the night time instead of turning on those 2 big central A/C you will save a lot of electricity, might even cut down 30% or more. Also how many rooms are those 2 Central A/C is cooling? You might consider a few mini A/C that are above 20 Seer which also have a heat pump that substitute your small electric heater during the winter. I checked the first day of electric data for yesterday and I can't believe how much less energy we consume. Yesterday was around 87 degree in my area, with a house with no attic, it can easily go up to 100 degree without A/C. Before my 2.5 ton central A/C uses around 2.2 KW per hour alone (3.3-3.8 KW with other stuffs in the house) and the temperature of the house still went up to 83-89 degree depending on the temperature outside. Right now with both mini split system on, I am only using 1.9 KW max with other stuffs combine and it is enough to cool down 2 rooms to under 78 degree. We are only home during the night time on weekdays, so only 1 system was turn on at any given time. Only used a total of 23 KWH yesterday comparing to normally 38-48 KW with central A/C. I find it amazing with the 17 Seer system. After the system is installed, I don't think I will be getting solar unless I got an EV and expand my aquarium hobby in the garage with another system install. Since your house have insulation and attic, if you and your tenants spent most of your times in the room, mini-split system above 20 Seer can surely help you. Another thing to consider is installing cool roof or cool liquid roof when its time for you to replace your roof. They can lower down the temperature of your whole house by at least 10 degrees during the hot days. This will be my next project in about 2-3 years since my roof is not in good condition. Also you can research more on time of use rate plans, I just requested to switch it 2 days ago because I found out, I can save 10% by using the same amount of energy because the rate are lower than my tiered rate during the 8 months winter period. Anyway, let me know what you think.Comment
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