SolarCity Isn't Looking So Terrible

[AzRoute66]

Maybe some back to basics: You started by saying "Reason why I am looking into monocystalline is because it's more aesthetic pleasing to me.". If that is still true...

A 290W panel is a 290W panel. If you have higher efficiency (mono) you expect the same wattage panel to be physically smaller, or more durable, or more heat tolerant, or more ____ than poly, because if not what is the point of higher efficiency.

I guess I am in the camp that I am mono/poly blind. I really don't care what the composition is, could be made out of worms for all I care. How does it provide power is all I really need to know - at least until the hot pink panels hit the market.

[ButchDeal]

- optimizers + inverter (Solar Edge). This is good if you have shade 'walking' across your array through a day. Reliability wise I have no idea but my gut feeling says it is 8-10 years and then even if you replace inverter optimizers would still remain on the roof.

why 8-10 years? SolarEdge comes with a 12 year warranty on the inverter that can be relativly cheaply extended to 20 or 25 years.

https://www.solaredge.com/us/service/warranty

[max2k]

Hmmm..why would the timer set back to zero when replacing an inverter is a fraction of the cost of a freshly installed solar system?

only relates to replaced inverter. Its replacement should be cheap as all the wiring will exist by that point.

i barely have any shading besides perhaps pes and vents that may cast a shadow some point in the day.

take a look: https://www.solaredge.com/sites/defa...in_shading.pdfbesides advertising SolarEdge equipment this white paper gives good overview of the shading effects.

Right now I am really considering polys just based on the cost alone. Since you guys are saying my Roi expectations are too high.

please don't trust us, count yourself- it is your money / decision after all. We can only provide less advertised background info.

[J.P.M.]

IMO only, this conversation could benefit from a reset. The OP will benefit from learning PV's capabilities, weaknesses and how it works by reading and playing around with PVWatts. Until he learns more, we're all telling him things he mostly lacks the background info to fully appreciate and in a way that's somewhat analogous to him trying to get into an elevator that's already gone up 4 ft. There's not much knowledge floor under his steps.

If, after some education, the OP chooses to provide some information on loads and choices made after, and as a result of, his knowledge quest, he'll probably get comments and answers that he can put into the context of what he then wants to do and perhaps make more informed decisions.

[max2k]

why 8-10 years? SolarEdge comes with a 12 year warranty on the inverter that can be relativly cheaply extended to 20 or 25 years.

https://www.solaredge.com/us/service/warranty

I consider solar warranties as means to cover initial manufacturing/installation defects and those extended warranties as a way for companies to make more money now over the same product. The extended warranties could provide some insight into how reliable manufacturer considers its own product if they going to make true on their extended warranty obligations and the contract doesn't have a lot of clauses cancelling the warranty. Too many ifs to my taste: for example, one can get stats how often ppl move and having that number at 15 years (made up) simply include clause about 25 year warranty not being transferable to the new owner allowing it to be sold cheaper.

I'd also pay attention what is covered- parts or parts+labor? Could be significant difference especially in case of microinverters.

[ButchDeal]

I consider solar warranties as means to cover initial manufacturing/installation defects and those extended warranties as a way for companies to make more money now over the same product. The extended warranties could provide some insight into how reliable manufacturer considers its own product if they going to make true on their extended warranty obligations and the contract doesn't have a lot of clauses cancelling the warranty. Too many ifs to my taste: for example, one can get stats how often ppl move and having that number at 15 years (made up) simply include clause about 25 year warranty not being transferable to the new owner allowing it to be sold cheaper.

I'd also pay attention what is covered- parts or parts+labor? Could be significant difference especially in case of microinverters.

I am asking about your prediction of SolarEdge inverters was 8-10 years but your above logic would have a longer prediction based on their long term warranty availability an initial warranty of 12 years, the easy transferal of the warranty etc.

The SolarEdge inverter is one of the simplest available due to the controlled DC input voltage and lack of MPPT units. But you predicted that a good quality string inverter should last 10 years but the higher quality SolarEdge inverter only 8-10 years. Seems odd that you would predict a shorter life for SolarEdge inverters than much more complicated string inverters which have shorter warranties and almost none have a 25 year warranty available.

[max2k]

I am asking about your prediction of SolarEdge inverters was 8-10 years but your above logic would have a longer prediction based on their long term warranty availability an initial warranty of 12 years, the easy transferal of the warranty etc.

The SolarEdge inverter is one of the simplest available due to the controlled DC input voltage and lack of MPPT units. But you predicted that a good quality string inverter should last 10 years but the higher quality SolarEdge inverter only 8-10 years. Seems odd that you would predict a shorter life for SolarEdge inverters than much more complicated string inverters which have shorter warranties and almost none have a 25 year warranty available.

I stated 'my gut feeling' before that number as I don't have any stats to back it up. I have a lot of experience fixing various electronics (> 10,000 units over several years) but no inverters yet. That's where that feeling comes from- I very rarely saw anything working beyond 10 years. If inverters tech somehow improved on making electronics more reliable it would be 'free gift' to me down the road.

IMO length of the warranty should not be taken as indicator of reliability- manufacturers could apply some extra data to come up with that number.

The system with string inverter is the simplest of them all - Solar Edge just spreads total complexity in a different way. Depending how you define 'working' system with SE it could be more reliable or less. Say you define 'working' when at least 1 optimizer or their min # to make inverter work is working. Since there are some redundancy in this case total reliability will be higher. If you say 'working' means all of them working I'd expect it to be less reliable as all optimizers need to be operational and any one of them down renders system non operational under this definition. I think reality is somewhere in between.

[J.P.M.]

If inverters tech somehow improved on making electronics more reliable it would be 'free gift' to me down the road.

As in a free gift you got for nothing on a complementary basis ?

[ButchDeal]

I stated 'my gut feeling' before that number as I don't have any stats to back it up. I have a lot of experience fixing various electronics (> 10,000 units over several years) but no inverters yet. That's where that feeling comes from- I very rarely saw anything working beyond 10 years. If inverters tech somehow improved on making electronics more reliable it would be 'free gift' to me down the road.

lifespan of electronics varies by quality of components used and heat dissipation design among other things. Quality equipment will have a longer lifespan than commodity equipment.
I have a Marantz stereo from '72 worked perfectly till mid '90s over 20 years. Had it recapped and still going strong.

I don't know that SolarEdge is the Marantz of inverters but I would highly suspect so with their efforts to use silicon capacitors and oversized heatsinks as well as offering 25 year warranty for under $0.05/w on new HDWave inverters.

[max2k]

lifespan of electronics varies by quality of components used and heat dissipation design among other things. Quality equipment will have a longer lifespan than commodity equipment.
I have a Marantz stereo from '72 worked perfectly till mid '90s over 20 years. Had it recapped and still going strong.

I don't know that SolarEdge is the Marantz of inverters but I would highly suspect so with their efforts to use silicon capacitors and oversized heatsinks as well as offering 25 year warranty for under $0.05/w on new HDWave inverters.

how about cooling fans- do SE inverters have them? I'd expect those to require maintenance much sooner than 25 years.

BTW, have you used your Marantz 24x7? Doubt it. I have NAD amplifier on my own which I deliberately bought used at the fraction of the original price as I know it wasn't actually 'used' much and all I can possibly face in the future are dried out caps.

[max2k]

IMO only, this conversation could benefit from a reset. The OP will benefit from learning PV's capabilities, weaknesses and how it works by reading and playing around with PVWatts. Until he learns more, we're all telling him things he mostly lacks the background info to fully appreciate and in a way that's somewhat analogous to him trying to get into an elevator that's already gone up 4 ft. There's not much knowledge floor under his steps.

If, after some education, the OP chooses to provide some information on loads and choices made after, and as a result of, his knowledge quest, he'll probably get comments and answers that he can put into the context of what he then wants to do and perhaps make more informed decisions.

Agree- if OP wants he can do that and come back more prepared. Time is on his side, 2-3 weeks won't change anything.

[J.P.M.]

how about cooling fans- do SE inverters have them? I'd expect those to require maintenance much sooner than 25 years..

Max: Forced or nat. convection cooling design adds expense to a design more than you may think - been there, done that for a living - and contrary to some opinion, with nat. convection cooling optimization often costing more in terms of material, space and design costs than forced convection designs, but without the pumping costs. Efforts at additional cooling may not be worth the possible but hard to quantify added lifespan benefits made possible by additional lowering of operating temps. Few outfits have the $$ or inclination to do enough testing for MTBF type analysis.

[ButchDeal]

how about cooling fans- do SE inverters have them? I'd expect those to require maintenance much sooner than 25 years.

BTW, have you used your Marantz 24x7? Doubt it. I have NAD amplifier on my own which I deliberately bought used at the fraction of the original price as I know it wasn't actually 'used' much and all I can possibly face in the future are dried out caps.

Actually Yes I leave it on 24/7 and turn on and off the peripherals. Most of the peripherals are smart so the amp needs to be on for them to work.
I have almost always run this amp in that way.
I don't know about whoever had it before me but caps dry out even when not used.

Yes SOME (larger) SolarEdge inverters have cooling fans. BUT the ones that do have them thermal coupled so they only come one when needed not continuous.

[max2k]

Actually Yes I leave it on 24/7 and turn on and off the peripherals. Most of the peripherals are smart so the amp needs to be on for them to work.
I have almost always run this amp in that way.
I don't know about whoever had it before me but caps dry out even when not used.

Yes SOME (larger) SolarEdge inverters have cooling fans. BUT the ones that do have them thermal coupled so they only come one when needed not continuous.

and you prefer to listen to your music on the roof too ? What I'm saying is it is not apple-to-apple comparison. I'm not picking on SE in particular, all inverters are subject to these issues and I'm merely trying to set realistic expectations. SE offering is probably the best out there today overall.

[ButchDeal]

and you prefer to listen to your music on the roof too ? What I'm saying is it is not apple-to-apple comparison. I'm not picking on SE in particular, all inverters are subject to these issues and I'm merely trying to set realistic expectations. SE offering is probably the best out there today overall.

actually with my amp I can listen on my neighbors roof on the other side of the neighborhood but thats different.
I only mentioned it as you stated about electronics in general: "I very rarely saw anything working beyond 10 years."

Further the SolarEdge inverter shouldn't generally (other than commercial installs) be placed ON the roof.

I only started this as I found it strange that someone would specify an expected life span for a produce 2-4 years SHORTER than the base warranty. Especially for the leading inverter manufacturer right now.

There are a lot of people that think that a product will die minutes after a warranty is up. I am not one of them. The only product I have under warranty currently are my PV modules, and they wouldn't be, if I could pay less for a shorter warranty.