Tesla solar roof - orders being taken next week

[SunEagle]

I am a fan, I am not ashamed to admit it. You don't win car of the year with a bad product. SpaceX has done things no one else has. He's making some big bets, and his mouth/twitter account get him in trouble, but I think he can pull off what he promises. I hope you're wrong. It's tempting to imagine a world where rooftop solar and batteries are ubiquitous and we can jettison coal in favor of a base load met by PV and gas peakers.

Being sensational is not enough. Coming up with great ideas and promises may get some people to spend their money but it still leaves a lot of people with questions as to where Musk is going and will his companies be around in a couple of years. The way they are all going now smells like sham where you get money from one investment to keep the other companies going.

If someone can develop both low cost batteries and RE source that can be purchased and installed by the average US consumer I would say that would be an accomplishment. But I do not see that coming from Tesla or the other companies associated with Musk.

Also if you feel that Solar, batteries and gas peakers will be enough to keep the lights on, then you are dreaming which is exactly the type of person that people like Musk prey on to keep them rich.

[Laspher]

Just going to jump in a say this: While you are entitled to your opinion, we seem to have gotten a little off topic, and more towards bashing of a person/business. I will believe all of the claims I have heard when I see everything in black and white from a site such as this, vs what the salesmen offer us.

[oilerlord]

I know Elon attracts more than his fair share of detractors, but give the guy chance. He does tend to over promise and under deliver, but if he can pull a PV roofing tile off at a price point people will pay, he could change the world. The powerwall and powerpack really seem very promising. My Mercedes has a Tesla battery and motor and I love it. It's the best car I've ever owned.

Coincidentally, I have the same car...a 2014 Mercedes B250e that I bought used. Great car, and yes - Tesla powered.

I do find it interesting how folks on this board slam Elon Musk but don't seem to recognize that he is one of the biggest proponents for solar. There are 400,000+ pre-order deposits for the new Model 3. I think it's a little shortsighted not to recognize that this car alone will cause a significant spike in home solar installs. Isn't that a good thing?

So yeah, let's give the guy a chance.

[SunEagle]

Coincidentally, I have the same car...a 2014 Mercedes B250e that I bought used. Great car, and yes - Tesla powered.

I do find it interesting how folks on this board slam Elon Musk but don't seem to recognize that he is one of the biggest proponents for solar. There are 400,000+ pre-order deposits for the new Model 3. I think it's a little shortsighted not to recognize that this car alone will cause a significant spike in home solar installs. Isn't that a good thing?

So yeah, let's give the guy a chance.

I am not sure why you feel anyone that does one thing (like build an EV) to increase the business of another (Musk does own a solar pv company) is admirable. It is just business.

As for the 400,000 + pre-orders.... why does the Model 3 needing another $1 billion more to be launched if Tesla is doing so well in the EV business?

I am not being shortsighted in Elon's accomplishments. I am being up front and very cautious when it comes to events that has people putting up big dollars for promises and only getting excuses and delays for their investments. That is the basic formula for a scam.

You do know that one of the Powerwall 2 versions that took in a lot of pre-order money is now not going to be manufactured by Tesla. Will those people get all of their money back?

[ButchDeal]

Coincidentally, I have the same car...a 2014 Mercedes B250e that I bought used. Great car, and yes - Tesla powered.

I do find it interesting how folks on this board slam Elon Musk but don't seem to recognize that he is one of the biggest proponents for solar. There are 400,000+ pre-order deposits for the new Model 3. I think it's a little shortsighted not to recognize that this car alone will cause a significant spike in home solar installs. Isn't that a good thing?

So yeah, let's give the guy a chance.

Wow, seems history does repeat itself. 400k pre-order deposits huh.
Have you heard of Tucker Automobile? well they did something similar with a very innovative auto back in 1948-1950
They made exactly 50 (to avoid legal action).

He had people purchase accessories to reserve their cars, as a form of deposit.

The tucker had an inovative power train as well. Tucker purchased a helicopter engine manufacturer (a very popular helicopter engine) but diverted all the resources to the car.
BTW, that engine was latter used in the '60s to power the corvair from Chevy. And is still used and popular in light planes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tucker_48

[oilerlord]

I am not sure why you feel anyone that does one thing (like build an EV) to increase the business of another (Musk does own a solar pv company) is admirable. It is just business.

I didn't give an opinion about Musk, or call him "admirable". I merely recognize that the prospect of 400,000+ electric cars hitting the streets will cause a spike in home solar installs. As this is a board that generally supports and advocates the use of solar, I think that's a good thing. If you don't, fine. We can agree to disagree.

As for the 400,000 + pre-orders.... why does the Model 3 needing another $1 billion more to be launched if Tesla is doing so well in the EV business?

Personally, I don't get too caught up in the business side of Tesla. FWIW, TSLA stock is trading at an all-time high so clearly, investors are happy. Does that mean Tesla is "doing well"? Tesla also burns cash, and loses money on every car it sells...does that mean Tesla is a failure? Who knows. It depends on your metric in measuring success. As I don't own TSLA shares, all of that is noise. I'm more interested in their cars, particularly the Model 3. It's a great looking car, and early indications show that it's going to be a hit.

I am not being shortsighted in Elon's accomplishments. I am being up front and very cautious when it comes to events that has people putting up big dollars for promises and only getting excuses and delays for their investments. That is the basic formula for a scam.

You do know that one of the Powerwall 2 versions that took in a lot of pre-order money is now not going to be manufactured by Tesla. Will those people get all of their money back?

While Tesla has a history of product launch delays, customers that chose to wait received their products while others got their money back. I wouldn't call it the "basic formula for a scam"...to you're point - it's just business.

[J.P.M.]

Coincidentally, I have the same car...a 2014 Mercedes B250e that I bought used. Great car, and yes - Tesla powered.

I do find it interesting how folks on this board slam Elon Musk but don't seem to recognize that he is one of the biggest proponents for solar. There are 400,000+ pre-order deposits for the new Model 3. I think it's a little shortsighted not to recognize that this car alone will cause a significant spike in home solar installs. Isn't that a good thing?

So yeah, let's give the guy a chance.

Musk is a con man masquerading as a solar proponent. The solar ignorant and treehugging dreamers don't see, or don't want to see the scam. I've seen the same thing with different faces and cons time and again for 40+ years. Musk's is simply larger than most. Over those same 40+ years, I've observed that the con men wax and wane, among other things, with the level of gov. support for alternate energy. The con men need two things to function: Public ignorance and gov. money.

400,000 people gave this guy $1,000 each on a promise. Maybe he's trying to turn himself into an enterprise that's "Too big to fail". Worked for the banks last time around.

Musk seems to me to be too leaky a vessel to much faith in with respect to staying afloat.

I'll give him a chance when he manages to :1.) Turn a profit. 2.) Do so without taking any gov. money.

Until then, it's a con and until folks wake up to it, the fix will stay in. P.T. Barnum was right.

[Beachsolar]

And just to clarify, Tesla doesn't really lose money on every car it sells. The profit margins on the Model S, for example, are some of the best in the industry (25%-30%). The more of those it could sell, the more the company would make. The company overall loses money because it is in extreme expansion mode, investing in a multi-billion dollar gigafactory, starting a whole new mass market car line, trying to create a home and utility battery business, starting a whole new solar roof business. Those types of capital expenditures are extremely expensive and for the time being, those expenses outweigh the profits coming in from the car business.

Whether Musk can pull all of this together and succeed long term is a good question, but he is making quite profitable cars right now.

[SunEagle]

And just to clarify, Tesla doesn't really lose money on every car it sells. The profit margins on the Model S, for example, are some of the best in the industry (25%-30%). The more of those it could sell, the more the company would make. The company overall loses money because it is in extreme expansion mode, investing in a multi-billion dollar gigafactory, starting a whole new mass market car line, trying to create a home and utility battery business, starting a whole new solar roof business. Those types of capital expenditures are extremely expensive and for the time being, those expenses outweigh the profits coming in from the car business.

Whether Musk can pull all of this together and succeed long term is a good question, but he is making quite profitable cars right now.

Actually in the beginning if Tesla did not receive the Government kick back for each car they would have lost money. Yes they are expanding and it looks great but I can point out that some larger businesses did the same thing and are now out of business.

It happens in the real estate business where the sale of a property keeps the money moving to purchase the next one but when the sales stop you could end up with a loss. Hopefully Tesla will pull out of it's nose dive and become truly profitable without the government or people that are willing to spend their money on pre-orders.

[J.P.M.]

Whether Musk can pull all of this together and succeed long term is a good question, but he is making quite profitable cars right now.

Talking to some folks I know at the outfit that's the gen. contractor for the SolarCity plant in Buffalo, it's turning into a cluster function. The state of NY got conned out of ~ $750 million so far on that one.

If that's typical of the way Musk operates, so much for the mega expansion mode. Until he stops taking gov. money, it's a con.

[Sunking]

Personally, I don't get too caught up in the business side of Tesla. FWIW, TSLA stock is trading at an all-time high so clearly, investors are happy. Does that mean Tesla is "doing well"? Tesla also burns cash, and loses money on every car it sells...does that mean Tesla is a failure? .

No it means it is a fraud. Tesla has not made one dime of profit ever, and his solar biz owes more than it is worth and insolvent. He is a top notch con artist. Hell has a special place waiting for him.

[Laspher]

You know, he lives quite well for being the CEO of an insolvent company. I can think of another billionaire that has has multiple bankruptcies and is living large. Guess this is the era of the con man.

[SunEagle]

You know, he lives quite well for being the CEO of an insolvent company. I can think of another billionaire that has has multiple bankruptcies and is living large. Guess this is the era of the con man.

Look you have your opinion of mr musk, I and others have a different viewpoint. It does not really matter what we think.

What matters to me is if his customers are happy with the products they purchased and feel they got their worth compared to what they spent on those products. If the vast majority of the customers are happy then I would say the business is good and healthy. If the vast majority of the customers feel they have been cheated or lied to, then I would say the business it not healthy (not matter how the CEO is living) and something should be changed to help the customers.

[Laspher]

Well said.

I again reiterate my point: I will wait until I see reports from actual users on how the Solar roof performs and if something like the tesla power wall is required or if regular FLA batteries will work.

[SunEagle]

Well said.

I again reiterate my point: I will wait until I see reports from actual users on how the Solar roof performs and if something like the tesla power wall is required or if regular FLA batteries will work.

I also hope Tesla makes good on those shingles. I worked for an industry that made shingles and understand a little about what is needed to install a good safe roof. Having the ability to efficiently harness solar energy makes it even better combination.

I was not happy to see DOW fail at their attempt but there is always a chance someone else will do a better job. I just wish it was a company that I had more faith in. Fingers crossed.