Grid-Tie without netmetering

[ButchDeal]

I have spoken with two installers. Both of them insist that they only install equipment that they sell. period.

They certainly will not install any non-UL listed junk. We have installers in Maine and they install the equipment we ship to them. Every job in Maine we have done has been permitted and interconnected with net metering. We have yet to do a Maine off grid job but when we do it also will be permitted.

[organic farmer]

So you live in an area where you can connect a home to the grid without any permits and inspections...

This is Maine

[organic farmer]

Again you are comparing not only the labor costs but the quality of a UL listed inspected piece of equipment to some piece of junk that will likely burn your home down. Try getting home insurance with that crap. They will give it to you and collect your money but when your house burns down they will disqualify it on grounds that you had a non-UL piece of equipment in the house.

and most installers will install lots of equipment that they source from distributors. We hire installers all over the US to install equipment that we provide.

I have spoken with two installers. Both of them insist that they only install equipment that they sell. period.

Nobody wants to drag some city inspector out to drive for hours to get to these rural towns to inspect some junk. There is no legal requirement for it.

My permit came with a certificate of completion and self-inspection. Because no inspector wants to spend his day driving out here.

[ButchDeal]

Installers will only install equipment that they sell. Nothing they sell is as low priced as what you can buy online and get shipped. Buy on-line and on-sale. You will pay half of what any installer charges.

Again you are comparing not only the labor costs but the quality of a UL listed inspected piece of equipment to some piece of junk that will likely burn your home down. Try getting home insurance with that crap. They will give it to you and collect your money but when your house burns down they will disqualify it on grounds that you had a non-UL piece of equipment in the house.

and most installers will install lots of equipment that they source from distributors. We hire installers all over the US to install equipment that we provide.

[ButchDeal]

The only possible time that you need a permit, or to hire an inspector, is when you are net-metering.

Not true for most people and likely not for you either. Also often the inspection is covered in the permit fee.

In the majority of this state, some home designs may need a permit, some homes do not need a permit. No home needs an inspector.

So you live in an area where you can connect a home to the grid without any permits and inspections...

You do not need it for off-grid solar or wind systems [unless the wind tower is taller than a certain threshold. One of our neighbors has this wind mill tower that has lights on it, and he needed to get a permit ]

For net-metering you need the permits, and the Poco inspections, and the state inspections, and you need the state certified installers [there are only a few and each of arseholes is a system dealer]. You pay out the woozoo to hire one of those guys.

I got quotes from two installers before I put in my system. One told me that he has never charged less than $100k for any off-grid system, he only deals with out-of-state tourists building multi-million dollar vacation homes.

You are just talking nuts now. We have done several off grid system. So, you talked to "One" installer that didn't want to do off grid with you ...

so you are comparing home jury rigged BS systems with professionally installed systems and complaining about the costs difference?

[organic farmer]

If your system is done correctly with permits and inspections, it shouldn't cost much more do to net metering and would have considerably less battery expense.

Another thought, when you do file a permit to build a house in our town. If you were to insist on having an inspector of some sort. That inspector would need to come up from the state capital, to inspect whatever you drug him out to look at. I have been told many stories about home builders doing that. It costs a lot extra.

My house permit came with a certificate of 'completion and self-inspection' that I signed when I was done building. But that was before I had lived here long enough to understand that I did not need the permit to begin with.

Installers will only install equipment that they sell. Nothing they sell is as low priced as what you can buy online and get shipped. Buy on-line and on-sale. You will pay half of what any installer charges.

[ButchDeal]

Hold on a second.

Our Poco does not pay money for power put onto the grid. If you net-meter you are billed for the taxes on the power you generate, and you are billed for the transmission fees for the power that you generate.

So that is NOT net metering.
if you net meter you are not billed for the taxes on the power you generate. You trade kwh, not money, thus no taxes on it.
And you do not have transmission fees. Net metering should almost NEVER go to transmission lines, a few distribution lines but not transmission lines.
So you don't have net metering as an option. I don't see how a neighbor could possibly have a lease then.

Plus as a completely separate issue, you also pay the lease fees.

Not if you purchase or get a loan. you specifically stated his overall costs...
a Lease would be the most expensive way to go.

Our neighbor who net-meters pay a lease that is equal to their previous average Poco bills, and they also pay a Poco bill. Every month they are paying out more for electricity than they were paying before.

Right most of that extra money is due to the LEASE!! but you already stated that the Poco doesn't have net metering.

Also as a completely separate issue, the total expense for their system is more than for any of the off-grid systems in our town [not talking finance or lease fees].

OK OK OK, first, what is the size of the neighbor that leases system? is it bimodal?
what is the size of the off grid systems. you already talked about the ones neighbor that has been off grid for decades and his system is smaller than the one in my trailer. So yes a tiny little 500w system is cheaper than a legally installed and permitted system including financing package that is I don't know what size because you haven't stated but probably over 4kw as leases are rarely under 4kw.
Just like a go cart is cheaper than a leased ferrari .

The little 12V system I put on my travel trailer is much much cheaper than the 3kw bimodal Outback power system I put in my house. My outback system does generates a hell of a lot more power. I can live in my travel trailer when we dry camp, sure but we also use a hell of a lot less power in it.

[organic farmer]

If your system is done correctly with permits and inspections, it shouldn't cost much more do to net metering and would have considerably less battery expense.

The only possible time that you need a permit, or to hire an inspector, is when you are net-metering.

In the majority of this state, some home designs may need a permit, some homes do not need a permit. No home needs an inspector.

You do not need it for off-grid solar or wind systems [unless the wind tower is taller than a certain threshold. One of our neighbors has this wind mill tower that has lights on it, and he needed to get a permit ]

For net-metering you need the permits, and the Poco inspections, and the state inspections, and you need the state certified installers [there are only a few and each of arseholes is a system dealer]. You pay out the woozoo to hire one of those guys.

I got quotes from two installers before I put in my system. One told me that he has never charged less than $100k for any off-grid system, he only deals with out-of-state tourists building multi-million dollar vacation homes.

[SunEagle]

Hold on a second.

Our Poco does not pay money for power put onto the grid. If you net-meter you are billed for the taxes on the power you generate, and you are billed for the transmission fees for the power that you generate.

Plus as a completely separate issue, you also pay the lease fees.

Our neighbor who net-meters pay a lease that is equal to their previous average Poco bills, and they also pay a Poco bill. Every month they are paying out more for electricity than they were paying before.

Also as a completely separate issue, the total expense for their system is more than for any of the off-grid systems in our town [not talking finance or lease fees].

Unfortunately you are probably right that for some places it can cost more for a grid tie system due to the fees and taxes and zero net metering.

What I can say that while you may live in an area like this most of the people in the US would be spending more installing a pv system that was not grid connected.

[Ian S]

"Net-metering has nothing to do with net-metering ???"

I'll repeat: a high cost monthly lease has nothing directly to do with net metering. Specifically, you can have net metering without having a lease. I simply have no idea why you seem to be equating leasing with net metering.

[organic farmer]

Hold on a second.

Our Poco does not pay money for power put onto the grid. If you net-meter you are billed for the taxes on the power you generate, and you are billed for the transmission fees for the power that you generate.

Plus as a completely separate issue, you also pay the lease fees.

Our neighbor who net-meters pay a lease that is equal to their previous average Poco bills, and they also pay a Poco bill. Every month they are paying out more for electricity than they were paying before.

Also as a completely separate issue, the total expense for their system is more than for any of the off-grid systems in our town [not talking finance or lease fees].

[ButchDeal]

I could have gone net-metering, but it would have cost us a lot more to do so.

Among all the homes in our town that are using solar or wind power the most expensive system is the one net-metering system.

If your system is done correctly with permits and inspections, it shouldn't cost much more do to net metering and would have considerably less battery expense.

You could have done a much cheaper inverter system with no battery and net metering.

The one you mentioned with net metering is a lease, leases are expensive. Also what is the size? and the size of yours?

[organic farmer]

I assume you could get net metering as well since you mentioned a neighbor with a lease.

I could have gone net-metering, but it would have cost us a lot more to do so.

Among all the homes in our town that are using solar or wind power the most expensive system is the one net-metering system.

[ButchDeal]

You specifically stated that they had a 20 year lease, and that their monthly expenses were higher. the 20 year lease is the finance and cause of the higher expenses

[ButchDeal]

"... their over all system expense is more than any of the off-grid systems in our town. ..."

Read that again. I am not saying a word about the financing part.

Their system's expense is more than any of the off-grid systems in our town, regardless of financing.

Actually read it again, you did. You specifically stated their "20 year leased...." That is Financed!
I have yet to see any Leased ANYTHING that is cheaper than a purchased same version of the same item.

I have no idea of what I said that you think is BS. You did not address anything I said

What I said is 100% truthful.

I am certain that you think so, it just is 100% inaccurate
What is BS is your statement that :

You can do all of these for a lot less expenditure than the net-metering expense.

I am tied to the grid. I am not net-metering.

your choice or it is not offered? I am tied to the grid an am net metered. I can do grid zero just like you but would be stupid to do so since I have net metering.

I assume you could get net metering as well since you mentioned a neighbor with a lease.