Lowest $/W for SunPower system

[J.P.M.]

I am new to the forum and want to thank you all the input. I seem to be having trouble pulling the trigger on solar as all of you seem to be getting such a great deals. The best I have gotten so far out of the three contractors I have been in contact with is 4.56/watt in Orange County. Should there really be such a big discrepancy between the rates OC and San Diego? I am interested in getting solar but don't want to regret it because I got ripped off.

Have you informed yourself about solar electricity ? Which brands of equipment are you getting quotes for ? What is your annual usage ? What size array ? Are you negotiating ? Suggest answering/doing the first question first if you want to increase the probability of not getting ripped off. Solar ignorance is your biggest enemy. Also the easiest to fix. Read up. Knowledge is power.

[Bynumite]

I am new to the forum and want to thank you all the input. I seem to be having trouble pulling the trigger on solar as all of you seem to be getting such a great deals. The best I have gotten so far out of the three contractors I have been in contact with is 4.56/watt in Orange County. Should there really be such a big discrepancy between the rates OC and San Diego? I am interested in getting solar but don't want to regret it because I got ripped off.

[J.P.M.]

You stated: "Not only that, I'd be about the happiest to see it. So far, I haven't. I've been waiting about 6-8 months now." I assumed "waiting," meant "waiting to see an S.P. contract lower than $4.50/W." I apologize for my outlandish assumption.

Accepted. My use of "waiting" was in a sarcastic tone, not anticipatory. I suggest we move on.

[pman555]

Try again and read what I wrote. I believe I wrote I have not SEEN a contract below $4.50/Watt, NOT that I was looking for one.

You stated: "Not only that, I'd be about the happiest to see it. So far, I haven't. I've been waiting about 6-8 months now." I assumed "waiting," meant "waiting to see an S.P. contract lower than $4.50/W." I apologize for my outlandish assumption.

[J.P.M.]

Wasn't trying to misquote you. You said you were looking to see a contract under $4.50/W, so I offered. I'm not sure I feel comfortable posting my contract publicly. Where would I do such a thing? And would I have to redact the company's name as well since we're not supposed to advertise installers here?

Try again and read what I wrote. I believe I wrote I have not SEEN a contract below $4.50/Watt, NOT that I was looking for one.

[pman555]

NOMB, but feel free to put it out to the forum if the Mods agree. Others in your area might benefit. If you do that, I'd suggest you include all the other rebates, state incentives and dealer discounts. As I have always written, S.P. is good stuff, just very commonly and usually overpriced for what you get compared to other quality stuff. As I also wrote, in that post and others over the last year or so, I'd be about the happiest to see such a price. FWIW, I don't doubt your veracity any more than I doubt others who state they have done well on S.P. pricing. i.e., - below $4.50/Watt. My beef was being misquoted. If you are going to quote me, get it right.

Wasn't trying to misquote you. You said you were looking to see a contract under $4.50/W, so I offered. I'm not sure I feel comfortable posting my contract publicly. Where would I do such a thing? And would I have to redact the company's name as well since we're not supposed to advertise installers here?

[jakepv]

genesmasher - would you please PM who you went with? Thanks in advance!

I've contacted 5 installers and the best quotes thus far are:

5.3 KW
17x LG315 + SE5000
~$22,000
~$4.13/W

5.2 KW
16x SP327 + SMA5000
~$24,000
~$4.58/W

5.0KW
16x SW315 + SMA5000
~$20,700
~$4.10/W

Here is the full list of quotes I got for my system (before tax credit), with the one I chose on top:


6.1 KW
20x LG305 + SolarEdge SE6000 + P320 optimizers
$21,180
$3.47/W

[J.P.M.]

I know we all compare our system price per watt before incentives, because (theoretically) that is an apples to apples starting point to compare by. But in the real world, looking at the various system costs by folks in different areas of the country, the incentives are taken into consideration when dealers/installers quote that full retail price. Here in NY, Sunpower systems go for every bit of $4.50/W, actually more like full $5/W. And above. But they can afford to start that high because of the excellent NY state incentives that bring the "out of pocket" cost down to a very reasonable and fair final number. For systems of the same material and complexity, I suspect the final post-incentive costs are rather close from state to state - would you agree? Basically, I agree that modules will become more and more commoditized, but I don't think that today's installers are ignoring the economic reality of the incentives when they price their systems. They know full well how much the customer is getting back in rebates, and it's rather easy for them to hide some extra profit in there. If/when the incentives go away, either the market will collapse, or modules/systems will magically become less expensive. I vote the latter will happen. What say you all?

And I'd suggest at least part of the reason for the higher prices in NY - and I think agreeing with you is that the incentives allow higher prices because consumers feel less price sting - which goes back to my argument that incentives benefit mfgs. and vendors more than consumers with the added problem that such incentives allow more unqualified vendors to stay in business by using the incentives/tax credits/rebates as a crutch when they would otherwise fail without such largess. So, to answer your question I'd agree there may be a TENDENCY for final, bottom line consumer prices/Watt to be similar............................ As for what might happen if/when tax credits expire, I, no more than anyone can predict the future. However, I wouldn't be surprised (using the scenario of a full end to residential tax credits) that installs will drop, demand will drop, and therefore prices will drop. How much ? I'd bet a fair amount, but not 30%. I'd also expect to see a lot of shoddy vendors go under - not unlike my expectation that a lot of leech diploma mills screwing people while mostly dragging off the public tit would go under if the gov. subsidies for their scams went away.................................... FWIW, I've sort of made my choice on bets for the solar industry, voted with my financial feet so to speak, and have just about completed bailing on all my solar stocks and ETS's a bit sooner than I'd planned a year or so ago. I think the train was leaving the station sooner than I had anticipated. But, who knows ?

[J.P.M.]

For the sake of data, would you like to see my contract? I'll cross out identifying info, etc.

NOMB, but feel free to put it out to the forum if the Mods agree. Others in your area might benefit. If you do that, I'd suggest you include all the other rebates, state incentives and dealer discounts. As I have always written, S.P. is good stuff, just very commonly and usually overpriced for what you get compared to other quality stuff. As I also wrote, in that post and others over the last year or so, I'd be about the happiest to see such a price. FWIW, I don't doubt your veracity any more than I doubt others who state they have done well on S.P. pricing. i.e., - below $4.50/Watt. My beef was being misquoted. If you are going to quote me, get it right.

[pman555]

To be clear, I believe I wrote I hadn't SEEN a price below $4.50/Watt on a contract. I've read on this forum that other's have been quoted less than that, and I don't doubt them, just that I have not seen it on a contract. I've seen about 15-18 contracts using S.P. equipment. IMO, anything close to $4.00/Watt on a repeatable basis would be a game changer around here, the word would be out an I'd probably have seen/heard about it by now. Not only that, I'd be about the happiest to see it. So far, I haven't. I've been waiting about 6-8 months now.

For the sake of data, would you like to see my contract?
I'll cross out identifying info, etc.

[truav8r]

I know we all compare our system price per watt before incentives, because (theoretically) that is an apples to apples starting point to compare by. But in the real world, looking at the various system costs by folks in different areas of the country, the incentives are taken into consideration when dealers/installers quote that full retail price. Here in NY, Sunpower systems go for every bit of $4.50/W, actually more like full $5/W. And above. But they can afford to start that high because of the excellent NY state incentives that bring the "out of pocket" cost down to a very reasonable and fair final number. For systems of the same material and complexity, I suspect the final post-incentive costs are rather close from state to state - would you agree?

Basically, I agree that modules will become more and more commoditized, but I don't think that today's installers are ignoring the economic reality of the incentives when they price their systems. They know full well how much the customer is getting back in rebates, and it's rather easy for them to hide some extra profit in there. If/when the incentives go away, either the market will collapse, or modules/systems will magically become less expensive. I vote the latter will happen. What say you all?

[J.P.M.]

Hey guys, just wanted to add my situation into the mix. I saw that JPM said he hadn't heard of anyone getting SunPower for less than $4.50/W in the San Diego area. Though I am in New Jersey, I wanted to stop by to let you guys know that I am getting SunPower E327 panels installed for about $3.90/W. It's an 8.175 kW system and a turnkey installation is costing me $31,883 before tax credit. If anyone around NJ is looking for a SunPower installer with a great price and (so far) great service, feel free to PM me.

To be clear, I believe I wrote I hadn't SEEN a price below $4.50/Watt on a contract. I've read on this forum that other's have been quoted less than that, and I don't doubt them, just that I have not seen it on a contract. I've seen about 15-18 contracts using S.P. equipment. IMO, anything close to $4.00/Watt on a repeatable basis would be a game changer around here, the word would be out an I'd probably have seen/heard about it by now. Not only that, I'd be about the happiest to see it. So far, I haven't. I've been waiting about 6-8 months now.

[pman555]

SunPower 327 for $3.90/W in NJ

Hey guys, just wanted to add my situation into the mix.
I saw that JPM said he hadn't heard of anyone getting SunPower for less than $4.50/W in the San Diego area. Though I am in New Jersey, I wanted to stop by to let you guys know that I am getting SunPower E327 panels installed for about $3.90/W.

It's an 8.175 kW system and a turnkey installation is costing me $31,883 before tax credit.
If anyone around NJ is looking for a SunPower installer with a great price and (so far) great service, feel free to PM me.

[J.P.M.]

Can u give me a couple other panels u might be talking about besides SP? Thanks

LG, SolarWorld, Canadin Solar, Kyocera, etc.,et. Google is again your friend. Some names will not be around if/after tax credits end and there will be consolidation at some point. Panels are well along the road to commoditization.

[Wishful]

Other panel brands

To all you recent S.D. posters: $4.50 is about the lowest recent price I've seen for Sunpower. Other posters claim to have done better and I don't doubt them, just that I've not seen a lower contract price for systems using Sunpowe equipment. The most recent S.P. price I've seen was last week for an 8+ kW S.P. 327 system for $4.74/Watt. S.P. is good stuff, but very overpriced for what you get. Sort of like buying a Mercedes as a grocery hauler when a Ford is as fit for purpose. You can get similar annual output from quality, fit for purpose equipment for a lot less up front cost. Unless you have a lot of unusual conditions relative to your install, paying much more than $3.5/Watt for a non S.P. system means you're leaving money on the table. Take what you want of the above. Scrap the rest.

Can u give me a couple other panels u might be talking about besides SP? Thanks