I just had a 8KW system installed by an installer. Now I don't trust them...

[fun2drive]

I am curious how your choke has worked out. I used to design filtering circuits and choke (sintered torrids) were part of the package for low freq from memory up to 100KHz. Caps above that. I hope that solves your interference issue.
I am planning a 10KW system and want to be able to monitor my system as well and have a vested interest in your outcome.

In my area it is pretty typical to have installers come from 50 miles away as this isn't a populated area.
Good advice by Russ regarding the installer but my guess is you checked this company out too so even due diligence doesn't always pay off.

[Bikerscum]

I am planning a 10KW system and want to be able to monitor my system as well and have a vested interest in your outcome.

You might consider a Solaredge system, the panel level monitoring works very well, no ac wires used for communication.

[thejq]

You might consider a Solaredge system, the panel level monitoring works very well, no ac wires used for communication.

Yeah I have Solaredge too. As far as I know, the optimizers also use power line to communicate with the inverter. So far I had zero problems. So it must be something Envoy is not doing it right. Not to imply Enphase is bad, but they seem to have more problems than others.

[sensij]

Yeah I have Solaredge too. As far as I know, the optimizers also use power line to communicate with the inverter. So far I had zero problems. So it must be something Envoy is not doing it right. Not to imply Enphase is bad, but they seem to have more problems than others.

The lines between the Solaredge optimizers and the inverter are DC, and are fairly isolated from the AC side of the inverter that connects to the electrical service panel. With Enphase, the communication is occurring on the AC side of the microinverter, and can be subject to noise that might exist in the house AC circuitry.

[thejq]

The lines between the Solaredge optimizers and the inverter are DC, and are fairly isolated from the AC side of the inverter that connects to the electrical service panel. With Enphase, the communication is occurring on the AC side of the microinverter, and can be subject to noise that might exist in the house AC circuitry.

Yeah I understand AC is more noisy to work with, but Enphase should have foreseen this problem and solve it in their design. To me it's not a good business practice to have these many problems in the field.

There are many ways to solve the power line problems especially for very low data rate like microinverters, eg. high pass filter to remove low freq noise (AC is 60Hz only, almost like DC), waveguide, frequency hoping, error correction code or some other combination etc. It's a propitiatory system, so they can do whatever they want with it to make sure the system works in all conditions. If people can send Mbps over miles of high voltage power line, Enphase shouldn't have problem with some household noise sources over tens of feet of wire at sub-Kbps.

[control4userguy]

piggy-back their junk on top of a set of Netgears? Again, the ethernet side of the envoy (or the internet, wifi, access point, router, client bridge, cable gateway, etc) are perfect. The problem is the notorious power line side.

Correct but you still can use Powerline to talk from one end of a AC wire to another. How does Enphase send down the data? Like I said, I have no experience with this system. Does Enphase embed radios in each micro? If so, that would be about as vulnerable to trouble as installing micro inverters over string inverters. I just don't see the benefit of monitoring individual panels. Monitoring the health of the whole array is where the rubber meets the road. In fact, why take a manuf. word for it? Calibrate an eGauge, TED, etc. and rest knowing your numbers are the closest to a true assessment of performance.

[myfriendSUN]

Internet access is trouble-free. I always get +WEB.
It is the powerline communication signal that randomly and often drop from 4 bar to none.

Try to install an outlet that's gets power before or directly from your main circuit breaker panel of the house and use this outlet for the envoy only.
My installer didn't install the envoy for me either.
On the design schematic there was an outlet that gets power from the CB panel directly.
My installer didn't bother to do that according to the schematic. I did have an outlet close to the CB panel.
This is the only outlet that I can get 4 bars so my envoy has to plug in here.
I didn't want to run ethernet cable around my house so I went for wifi and I failed to get it work.
I called enphasy support for help. They were very helpful and I got the enlighten manager feature too.
I can see my panels (almost) live from the internet.
You can always call them for help.

So I got my monitoring working without the installer.

[sdold]

You're right, all of these monitoring systems (TED, eGauge, etc) can be used to monitor an Enphase system. The advantage to per-panel monitoring is that if one panel or inverter fails, it's easier to find the problem. Eventually I'll need to replace one or more. Without the monitoring, I'd have to climb up and put a current meter on each panel, hoping that the DC current will be different for the panel with the bad inverter. With the Envoy, I can look at my phone and see which one has failed.

All of this arm-waving about unreliability has me thinking that the only problem is a lack of understanding of these systems and how to make them work. Sort of like the CBers who don't understand why their 1/4 wave mobile antennas don't work when mounted to a tower with no ground plane, or the guy who buys a pair of FRS radios and wonders why other channel users are interfering with him. Can't they use encoding? Can't they use FHSS? I like the waveguide suggestion, that's some out of the box thinking

[myfriendSUN]

How does Enphase send down the data?

Enphase microinverter send data to Envoy through the power lines so the Envoy has to be plugged in close to the solar output for the best result.

[myfriendSUN]

When you call Enphase for help on the phone always log in to your system with a computer/laptop and NOT a mobile device because some features would NOT work on the mobile device.

[control4userguy]

...The advantage to per-panel monitoring is that if one panel or inverter fails, it's easier to find the problem. Eventually I'll need to replace one or more. Without the monitoring, I'd have to climb up and put a current meter on each panel, hoping that the DC current will be different for the panel with the bad inverter. With the Envoy, I can look at my phone and see which one has failed....

LOL, at this point, I doubt the OP is going to be climbing around up on the roof. One thing you are right about, you WILL have failures.

[myfriendSUN]

For panel monitoring, unless you have the map of the panels on your roof, the installer has to supply the map to Enphase to enable the monitoring.
If you have the map information yourself you can build the map yourself at your computer.

[sensij]

All of this arm-waving about unreliability has me thinking that the only problem is a lack of understanding of these systems and how to make them work. Sort of like the CBers who don't understand why their 1/4 wave mobile antennas don't work when mounted to a tower with no ground plane, or the guy who buys a pair of FRS radios and wonders why other channel users are interfering with him. Can't they use encoding? Can't they use FHSS? I like the waveguide suggestion, that's some out of the box thinking

I think the point is that while Envoy communications can be made to work with some knowledge and experience, competing systems have been designed to be more fool-proof. That difference may be just one small factor in the overall system comparison, but for some people, it might matter more than others.

[derekc]

I am the OP.
For a week the installer has ignored me. Envoy has gotten no communication with the micros for two days already because I specifically kept the interfering devices on 24x7. They should have gotten some warning if they were monitoring my system. Keep in mind that this is not new. They knew it was there and told me it is acceptable.
I will propose to release them from the warranty service (which they don't provide), I will ask for a $3k credit. I will need the map of serial number, and ask them to enable me to watch the per panel monitoring so that I can then remove them from enlighten (according to the Enphase support - see my post#6).

Some other installers might think I am not being reasonable. I think as a consumer paying full price, I have to right to ask a working system. I just happen to know what to expect from each component of the system so I am being demanding. A lot of homeowners simply trust their installers to do the job.

[myfriendSUN]

Envoy has gotten no communication with the micros for two days already because I specifically kept the interfering devices on 24x7. They should have gotten some warning if they were monitoring my system. Keep in mind that this is not new. They knew it was there and told me it is acceptable.

Where do you plug in your Envoy?
How many bars you have and for how long it's been working?
How many bars do you have right now?
If you had 4 bars and have been working for months and now it's not working then may be you have problem with your Envoy itself.
Enphase can hardly help you with the communication problem between the microinverters and the Envoy.
The Envoy has to be plugged in as close to the main circuit breaker panel as possible to get at less 4 bars of signal.

I would never expect somebody would keep an eye on my system at all unless I called them that I have problem.