I just had a 8KW system installed by an installer. Now I don't trust them...

[derekc]

Your solar is working, just the powerline communication has issue. Like I said, just unglug and re-plug in the powerline module, it will update the data. Again, you will not get instantaneous output. All the data will be delay. If you really cannot solve the communication issue, then switch to WiFi, all you need is a WiFi extender to your wireless router.

Or get a new set of Powerline modules.

I don't see how a simple fix can cause so much of problem.

You are confused. Wifi or ethernet has NOTHING to do with the power line communication signal. Unplugging and replugging the envoy will NOT address the interference problem if that device is still on.
What powerline modules? Do you know Envoy?

[sdold]

They use different "Mixes" to attenuate different frequencies. I'm not certain but I think the inverters use something relatively low, like 100 KHz, which is below the frequencies most people need to attenuate . It's possible the one from the monitor was for a higher frequency range. If Enphase sells toroids,they are probably the right ones. Also, you mentioned number of turns. The impedance value, which is what you need more of, goes up as the square of the number of turns, so do at least one turn and more if you can.

Do you get good communication by switching off other circuits? If you do, it shouldn't be too hard to get this right. You'll be happy with the way it works once it's going, it's a really good system.

[silversaver]

wait a min. are you saying your problem is from micro inverters to Envoy, not from Envoy to your router?

[derekc]

They use different "Mixes" to attenuate different frequencies. I'm not certain but I think the inverters use something relatively low, like 100 KHz, which is below the frequencies most people need to attenuate . It's possible the one from the monitor was for a higher frequency range. If Enphase sells toroids,they are probably the right ones. Also, you mentioned number of turns. The impedance value, which is what you need more of, goes up as the square of the number of turns, so do at least one turn and more if you can.

144kHz is the envoy is talking to the micro-inverters at. Thanks for the info. So, I will go thru the ring 3 times then. I will do on the hot wires only, right? I wonder if I can do the wrap around like this so that I don't have to disconnect any wires. I will try and report back.

IMG_2535.JPG

[sdold]

144kHz is the envoy is talking to the micro-inverters at. Thanks for the info. So, I will go thru the ring 3 times then. I will do on the hot wires only, right? I wonder if I can do the wrap around like this so that I don't have to disconnect any wires. I will try and report back.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]4984[/ATTACH]

I don't know if that will work, but it's worth a try. I put my toroids on the hot leads only (leading to the sub panel) and they worked fine.

[sensij]

I am surprised you would choose to burn your bridge with the installer over an issue like this. Powerline communications are notoriously difficult, and by choosing to buy a system based on that, you are surely taking on some of the risk. What if a year from now you add a ceiling fan and it fouls up the communication (I've had this experience). Would you have expected the installer to come back and make the Envoy work?

Anyway, now that you have taken an adversarial approach with the installer, I hope that a more significant problem does not occur. I think I would have waited at least until the first rain storm to take the position you have, just to make sure the roof has no leaks. Sure, you can resolve something like that in court, but maintaining a good relationship with the installer would have been a much less painful alternative.

[derekc]

I am surprised you would choose to burn your bridge with the installer over an issue like this. Powerline communications are notoriously difficult, and by choosing to buy a system based on that, you are surely taking on some of the risk. What if a year from now you add a ceiling fan and it fouls up the communication (I've had this experience). Would you have expected the installer to come back and make the Envoy work?

Anyway, now that you have taken an adversarial approach with the installer, I hope that a more significant problem does not occur. I think I would have waited at least until the first rain storm to take the position you have, just to make sure the roof has no leaks. Sure, you can resolve something like that in court, but maintaining a good relationship with the installer would have been a much less painful alternative.

I didn't know "Powerline communications are notoriously difficult."
I insisted on paying only after the job is complete. I still believe in that and monitoring is part of it.
If they are not willing to fix to get paid, I doubt if I will be able to get them to come to fix any problem in the future after getting all paid up. I would rather take back some $ now and keep it for future DIY repair. Solar panel system is not rocket science. Now they (or Enphase) don't even provide me per panel monitoring, how do I know if one panel has gone dead and they know if and not tell me? I am a DIYer for most of the stuff around the house. Too bad the city has to have an installer for solar panels.

The question remains is will I get warranty from SolarWorld and Enphase for their parts? 25 years is long time. How do people handle warranty of their solar panel system if their installer has gone out of business?

[silversaver]

If the installer is out of the business, you can find a 3rd to handle warranty issue for you.

First, I felt the installer sux that they are not helping you. Soon I realize the problem might not be just the installer. Look, if your method of communication between Envoy to your router has problem by using the powerline communication bridge, then change to other method! The best is CAT5 cable, but I am sure you don't like how it looks putting long cable from Envoy to the router and who knows how far apart, then go with Zigbee WiFi. You said you are a network engineer and how difficult this would be for you?

[derekc]

If the installer is out of the business, you can find a 3rd to handle warranty issue for you.

First, I felt the installer sux that they are not helping you. Soon I realize the problem might not be just the installer. Look, if your method of communication between Envoy to your router has problem by using the powerline communication bridge, then change to other method! The best is CAT5 cable, but I am sure you don't like how it looks putting long cable from Envoy to the router and who knows how far apart, then go with Zigbee WiFi. You said you are a network engineer and how difficult this would be for you?

Again, Internet access of the Envoy is not a problem. The problem is powerline communication to the micro inverters. Even if I have to move the envoy to another corner of the house, I have access points (wifi and ethernet) around the house, so Internet access will not be a problem. Thank you for you concern on that part thou.

[slopoke]

If the installer is out of the business, you can find a 3rd to handle warranty issue for you.

First, I felt the installer sux that they are not helping you. Soon I realize the problem might not be just the installer. Look, if your method of communication between Envoy to your router has problem by using the powerline communication bridge, then change to other method! The best is CAT5 cable, but I am sure you don't like how it looks putting long cable from Envoy to the router and who knows how far apart, then go with Zigbee WiFi. You said you are a network engineer and how difficult this would be for you?

The microinverters communicate to the Envoy unit via the household wiring not wifi. The Envoy unit uses a hardwire network cable. My unit is in my garage hooked to an access point.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power-line_communication

[sensij]

The question remains is will I get warranty from SolarWorld and Enphase for their parts? 25 years is long time. How do people handle warranty of their solar panel system if their installer has gone out of business?

I think you are not getting a straight answer to this question because there isn't one. Some solar equipment companies have relationships with installers that offer different terms than what are available to the general public. Your best bet would probably be to seek support from a different solar installer should a warranty issue arise. The enphase warranty terms do not necessarily cover the labor involved in equipment replacement, so you might expect to spend some money should that be necessary. Their BBB page isn't particularly encouraging. Solarworld is not currently profitable so their long term warranty support could less than you'd like, but neither is Amazon, and no one is too worried about them disappearing.

[derekc]

I think you are not getting a straight answer to this question because there isn't one. Some solar equipment companies have relationships with installers that offer different terms than what are available to the general public. Your best bet would probably be to seek support from a different solar installer should a warranty issue arise. The enphase warranty terms do not necessarily cover the labor involved in equipment replacement, so you might expect to spend some money should that be necessary. Their BBB page isn't particularly encouraging. Solarworld is not currently profitable so their long term warranty support could less than you'd like, but neither is Amazon, and no one is too worried about them disappearing.

I understand. I was hoping to put a value on the warranty portion of the whole deal so as to get this over with.

[silversaver]

Again, Internet access of the Envoy is not a problem. The problem is powerline communication to the micro inverters. Even if I have to move the envoy to another corner of the house, I have access points (wifi and ethernet) around the house, so Internet access will not be a problem. Thank you for you concern on that part thou.

Got it. The communication between micro inverters and Envoy through AC wiring that was giving bad signal.

Try to relocate Envoy closer to your service panel or Install a dedicated outlet for the Envoy. (subpanel for you solar circuit)

[inetdog]

Got it. The communication between micro inverters and Envoy through AC wiring that was giving bad signal.

Try to relocate Envoy closer to your service panel or Install a dedicated outlet for the Envoy. (subpanel for you solar circuit)

The basic principle you need to follow is to keep the Envoy on the same branch circuit as the micros and keep that branch circuit as isolated as possible (at RF frequencies) from all of the rest of your wiring, in particular the noise generating loads.
If that means connecting the Envoy at the panel or subpanel where the AC backfeeds, or even connecting it to the inverter output circuit itself, then do that.

[derekc]

The basic principle you need to follow is to keep the Envoy on the same branch circuit as the micros and keep that branch circuit as isolated as possible (at RF frequencies) from all of the rest of your wiring, in particular the noise generating loads.
If that means connecting the Envoy at the panel or subpanel where the AC backfeeds, or even connecting it to the inverter output circuit itself, then do that.

Yes, I figured that out after reading the troubleshooting guide. The problem is the subpanel has no slot for more breaker. Now I could only isolate the interfering circuit, if I can find it, by a ferrite toroid or just put one on each other circuit. That was the installer's job, wasn't it.