I just had a 8KW system installed by an installer. Now I don't trust them...

[control4userguy]

Overall, there are many things one can try to get comms up&running. I get the feeling like if you don't want to DIY, good luck then. At least try to eliminate the possibility that the PLC units being supplied with Enphase could be crap. Easy way to find out is to piggy-back their junk on top of a set of Netgears and see what that gets you. I do that with Actiontec units (major junk) and they work fine no matter where they are placed.

[derekc]

Overall, there are many things one can try to get comms up&running. I get the feeling like if you don't want to DIY, good luck then. At least try to eliminate the possibility that the PLC units being supplied with Enphase could be crap. Easy way to find out is to piggy-back their junk on top of a set of Netgears and see what that gets you. I do that with Actiontec units (major junk) and they work fine no matter where they are placed.

piggy-back their junk on top of a set of Netgears? Again, the ethernet side of the envoy (or the internet, wifi, access point, router, client bridge, cable gateway, etc) are perfect. The problem is the notorious power line side.

[inetdog]

Yes, I figured that out after reading the troubleshooting guide. The problem is the subpanel has no slot for more breaker. Now I could only isolate the interfering circuit, if I can find it, by a ferrite toroid or just put one on each other circuit. That was the installer's job, wasn't it.

Since there is no more room in the panel, why not get a receptacle wired into the PV output wires themselves before they enter the panel? As long as the CB is 20A or less, an electrician should be able to do that easily. If the CB is larger, then there must be an AC combiner panel closer to the inverters. Then
put the ferrite isolator between that point and the breaker?
As for eliminating the source of interference caused by your light fixtures and your house wiring, I do not feel comfortable putting the entire responsibility for correcting that on your installer. Working with you to identify the problem, sure, but not fixing everything that is wrong in your house wiring as a zero cost part of doing the installation.
Getting power line communication to work properly is something of an art.

[control4userguy]

OP-You don't need a "slot". Just sneak it in under the existing breaker heading up to the roof. Also, if you already know what circuit is causing the interference, why not tackle that first? I guess I don't get this argument...

Yeah, that's what I was saying- you don't need a separate breaker for something drawing mAs...

[derekc]

Yeap, another way is to cut that 3/4" pipe and insert a 1 gang box. There are 4 wires inside the pipe - black red white and ground for 240V. Wire the black, white and ground for 120V for the envoy. It will not be to the code but it will work (and that is not easily reversable and might "void" the warranty should the installer come back, or get me in trouble if the city inspector comes back.)

I just bought qty ten torroids. I will put one on the defending circuit first. Hopefully there is just one defending circuit.

[DanS26]

Really, why would that matter? I have a Sunpower com. system, two eGauge units and a PC all on separate sets of PL modules. Not a spec of trouble. Powerline is crude and rude but gets the job done when homes don't have the necessary Ethernet jacks in the right places. Is this something specific with the PL modules supplied by Enphase? I use Netgear PLC units.

Well, this came straight from Enphase customer support. "TED and Envoy do not play well together".

They also said Envoy does not like to travel long distances, especially for ground mounts located far away.

[derekc]

Well, this came straight from Enphase customer support. "TED and Envoy do not play well together".

They also said Envoy does not like to travel long distances, especially for ground mounts located far away.

When you have to install your envoy near the solar subpanel and if there is no ethernet or wifi (if you use a client bridge like TP-LINK TL-WR702N) access there, then one way is to use ethernet over powerline AND THAT IS HOW PEOPLE (INSTALLER?) GET CONFUSED mixing that idea with the powerline communication between the envoy and the micro inverters. A powerline can handle both "ethernet over powerline" and the 144Khz communication between envoy and micro-inverters but they are TWO different issues.

[sensij]

When you have to install your envoy near the solar subpanel and if there is no ethernet or wifi (if you use a client bridge like TP-LINK TL-WR702N) access there, then one way is to use ethernet over powerline AND THAT IS HOW PEOPLE (INSTALLER?) GET CONFUSED mixing that idea with the powerline communication between the envoy and the micro inverters. A powerline can handle both "ethernet over powerline" and the 144Khz communication between envoy and micro-inverters but they are TWO different issues.

The issues may not be as different as you are suggesting. For example, the TED 5000 mentioned uses a 132 kHz communication signal. Without appropriate filtering, it would not be hard for the two signals to conflict. Homeplug compliant ethernet over powerline systems typically operate in the mHz range, and are more easily filtered. Without more knowledge of the Envoy's built-in filtering capabilities, it is hard to know what signals in its power would affect its communications.

[sdold]

Oh, I can't even see the per panel info? If the installer (they can see) don't tell me one panel has no output (like when a tree branch is on it), how do I know? What is the point of buying a monitoring device?

One thing that can be done with MyEnlighten is the "Array" view. It shows the accumulated energy produced by each individual panel during the day. It's not real-time power monitoring, but at least it'll show you if have a panel (or inverter) that's producing significantly less than the others.

The Enlighten Manager per-panel power monitoring is fun for maybe a week (mostly due to the animations), than you'll probably be like me and get tired of it.

There is a lot of bashing here of the data over powerline system, but I can't think of anything better without running more wires down the conduit. I guess you could have a data wire daisy-chained to each inverter, much like the old tyme coax Ethernet with the T connectors on the network cards. I wouldn't want to have ethernet cables on the inverters. Wifi on each inverter might work, but might generate a lot of RF for other routers and devices to deal with, and range would again be a problem. Before I fixed my problem with chokes, I even considered putting a waterproof/dustproof box near the panels and putting the Envoy in there, and running an ethernet cable to my router.

I think the current design can be made to work well with more up-front consideration of the challenges, like using a sub-panel and ferrite chokes. Make RF isolation part of the system design in other words, instead of hoping it won't be necessary and trying to deal with it later.

[derekc]

I think all installers should install envoy on the solar subpanel or before its wire gets to the main panel. And they should always put a ferrite torroid on the wire to block off any interference from the house. Enphase should also make envoy wifi capable and if the wifi signal is too weak at where the envoy is, installer should use wifi repeater midway between the envoy and the wifi router (or access point) instead of messing with adding any ethernet over powerline bridges.

[sdold]

I definitely agree about the sub-panel. I installed mine because my city told me that PG&E needed an AC disconnect. I don't think the Sub-Panel is a "real" AC disconnect, but I didn't know it at the time. It turned out that PG&E doesn't require it anymore (they used to) but when it came time to troubleshoot the Envoy, man, I was sure glad that panel was there and that I was able to add the circuit for the plug for the Envoy. It was just dumb luck.

On the WiFi side: When I was buying parts for my system, there was a WiFi option for the Envoy. I'm not certain but it looked like a standard Envoy with a USB WiFi dongle. I would have used that, but had the incredible luck of having an uncle who had an extra non-WiFi one that he gave me.

[derekc]

I definitely agree about the sub-panel. I installed mine because my city told me that PG&E needed an AC disconnect. I don't think the Sub-Panel is a "real" AC disconnect, but I didn't know it at the time. It turned out that PG&E doesn't require it anymore (they used to) but when it came time to troubleshoot the Envoy, man, I was sure glad that panel was there and that I was able to add the circuit for the plug for the Envoy. It was just dumb luck.

On the WiFi side: When I was buying parts for my system, there was a WiFi option for the Envoy. I'm not certain but it looked like a standard Envoy with a USB WiFi dongle. I would have used that, but had the incredible luck of having an uncle who had an extra non-WiFi one that he gave me.

My city REQUIRES the sub-panel outside by the house so that their firemen can cut off the power in case of fire. Too bad my installer used a small one that left no slot for adding even another breaker for the envoy.

[sdold]

That's what's weird about these requirements. If they pull the meter or shut off the main breaker, the power from the panels [edit: I should have said INVERTERS] disappears, and the power from a central inverter would, too. I don't know if the requirements are based on lack of understanding of that fact, or the possibility that power can still somehow come from an inverter that has an anti-islanding failure, or just a holdover from DC systems with inverters and transfer switches.

What size is the breaker? If you have an 8 Kw system, I think you need two circuits (with two double pole breakers) since you have more than the 17 maximum allowed inverters on one string.

Someone had an interesting suggestion: Double-tapping off of one leg of one breaker and running it to a plug. Technically, I think if they are 20A or smaller breakers (likely if you have two, one for each inverter string) and you use a 20A outlet, with appropriately sized wire, it would work, I just don't know if it would meet the electrical code.

[Bikerscum]

My city REQUIRES the sub-panel outside by the house so that their firemen can cut off the power in case of fire. Too bad my installer used a small one that left no slot for adding even another breaker for the envoy.

My installer put the breaker box outside & the city made them move it inside the garage next to the inverter. Makes no sense, no fireman or anyone else can access it with the garage closed.

There was no point in arguing.

[derekc]

My city requires the pipes to be painted to match the wall. Ok. Fine, we did it. Then they wanted the pipes on the roof to match the color of the roof. When they came in, they also walked around my house looking for trouble. They checked the smoke detectors, then the CO sensors, etc.
I guess they wanted to make it look like what we paid them was well worth it.