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Need Some help with this Inverter SCHNEIDER 6.8 KW 48 VDC GRID TIE BATTERY INVERTER

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  • Need Some help with this Inverter SCHNEIDER 6.8 KW 48 VDC GRID TIE BATTERY INVERTER

    Hi guys,

    SCHNEIDER 6.8 KW 48 VDC 120/240VAC 60HZ GRID TIE BATTERY INVERTER. XW6848.

    My solar system vendor told me this inverter can be grid tie and work with batteries. He said I can use the current battery bank and grid tie this inverter, when my battery bank reach to a set voltage it will either take some power from the grid when the battery bank volt reach low and sell back power to the grid when the battery bank voltage reach to the high setting.

    My battery banks is dying, I don't want to do a full replace which would be two banks of 400AH 48 volts. if I get one bank only with 370AH 20 hours like Trojan's L16RE. would the battery bank be damage before the voltage reach to the selling point to the grid if the PV charging current be as large as 80 amps pump into the battery bank? is there a way to program this inverter so the large charge current won't damage the battery bank?

    Any one has experience with this inverter can give some insight information?

    Thank you in advance.

  • #2
    The general guideline for battery size for 48V inverters, is 100ah battery capacity for each 1Kw of output power. The battery supplies the "ripple" current needed to create the AC sinewave. Too small of battery and the waveform gets distorted and inverter may shut down. If you expect to export 5Kw to the grid, you need 500ah of battery to ameliorate the ripple effects on the DC bus.

    This is required on top of the amp hours needed for power consumption.
    Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
    || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
    || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

    solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
    gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi Mike,
      Thank you for your reply. I am new to the grid tie system. I don't quite understand you. isn't it the power export to the grid is the PV power not from the battery bank? what I want to do is try to export some power to the grid when the PV current getting too high and not to kill the battery bank.

      I know you have the XW6048 inverter. Can you tell me something about this inverter? when the battery bank and the PV power can't supply the load. what does this inverter do? does it switch to the grid totally with a transfer switch or it took some current from the grid and the PV plus the battery still supply some of the load?
      Thank you.

      Comment


      • #4
        First, I'm Off-Grid, and don't sell back.
        But I have the same inverter requirements, enough battery to be a buffer for the ripple current. PV panels have no capability for reserve, and even if you had 20K of panels, they are "isolated" by the solar charge controller. The batteries act as a giant capacitor, and their fat short leads are quite low in inductance at 60 hz (ripple frequency)

        Your inverter can only supply 6.8kw (a bit more, look at the surge ratings and time allowed) If your battery and solar can't keep up with that demand, the inverter stops selling and goes into Assist Mode? I'm guessing here.
        When running my 3kw generator, if loads exceed the generator rating I programed into the SCP, the Inverter backs off battery charging, and if I pull even more load that 3kw, the inverter "assists" the generator (Generator Assist Mode) and resumes charging batteries when the load diminishes .
        Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
        || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
        || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

        solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
        gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

        Comment


        • #5
          Thank you Mike,

          Can this inverter gather power from PV, battery bank and the grid to power the load together instead switch between them? The Magnum 4448PAE I have now only switch to grid when the PV and batteries are low. I don't want that. So when the battery can't manage the load, Can I program the inverter to get assist from the grid? ant way my load is not that high at any given time. it usual draw 25 to 40 amps at 55 volts DC. it mean about 1500 to 2500 watts normally except when I turn on the water pump. the water pump is 1500 watts and combine normal power it would be 4000 watts; So the Trojan L16RE would be enough to buffer the ripple current?

          Thanks.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by paulcheung View Post
            Thank you Mike,

            Can this inverter gather power from PV, battery bank and the grid to power the load together instead switch between them? The Magnum 4448PAE I have now only switch to grid when the PV and batteries are low. I don't want that. So when the battery can't manage the load, Can I program the inverter to get assist from the grid? ant way my load is not that high at any given time. it usual draw 25 to 40 amps at 55 volts DC. it mean about 1500 to 2500 watts normally except when I turn on the water pump. the water pump is 1500 watts and combine normal power it would be 4000 watts; So the Trojan L16RE would be enough to buffer the ripple current?

            Thanks.
            Do you have net metering available to you? If so then you can have the batteries only for backup and cycle them rarely.

            Otherwise many of the bymodal inverters have zero feed in options in the programming, Some do this better than others though.
            OutBack FP1 w/ CS6P-250P http://bit.ly/1Sg5VNH

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by ButchDeal View Post

              Do you have net metering available to you? If so then you can have the batteries only for backup and cycle them rarely.

              Otherwise many of the bymodal inverters have zero feed in options in the programming, Some do this better than others though.
              whether I have net metering or not it is not a big problem here, as the batteries are dying and the replacement for full size batteries are too expensive. Our power company pay us 1 third the price we buy from them. but to get a little back from them is better than none. what I really need is using the grid to assist the load when the PV is not be able to manage the load and I don't want to cycle the batteries much. my whole concern is whether the charge current 70 to 75 amps are too much for the batteries for short peroid. and if the inverter really does what my vendor claim that it take the power from the grid to assist when the PV and the batteries are not enough to manage the load.
              Thanks

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by paulcheung View Post

                whether I have net metering or not it is not a big problem here, as the batteries are dying and the replacement for full size batteries are too expensive. Our power company pay us 1 third the price we buy from them. but to get a little back from them is better than none. what I really need is using the grid to assist the load when the PV is not be able to manage the load and I don't want to cycle the batteries much. my whole concern is whether the charge current 70 to 75 amps are too much for the batteries for short peroid. and if the inverter really does what my vendor claim that it take the power from the grid to assist when the PV and the batteries are not enough to manage the load.
                Thanks
                Are you miss understanding net metering and excess generation? Net metering is at retail value by deffinition and excess generation is at wholesale or about 1/3 retail. Excess generation is what you feed to the grid in excess of your consumotion after the billing cycle or a year.
                If you have net metering then use it and don't cycle the batteries, they will last a hell of a lot longer.

                If you are net metering the. You will use the grid to "assist" inherently....
                OutBack FP1 w/ CS6P-250P http://bit.ly/1Sg5VNH

                Comment


                • #9
                  Failing batteries are not good enough to function as "ripple capacitors" and with enough time and output load you inverter will give you an error "Capacitor Overheat"
                  [FONT=lucida sans unicode]Error F45 Capacitor over-temperature shutdown at 105
                  Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
                  || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
                  || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

                  solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
                  gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ButchDeal View Post

                    Are you miss understanding net metering and excess generation? Net metering is at retail value by deffinition and excess generation is at wholesale or about 1/3 retail. Excess generation is what you feed to the grid in excess of your consumotion after the billing cycle or a year.
                    If you have net metering then use it and don't cycle the batteries, they will last a hell of a lot longer.

                    If you are net metering the. You will use the grid to "assist" inherently....
                    I do understand what you mean by net metering, legally we only have excessive generation and the power company will buy it from us at 1 third the price they charge us.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Mike90250 View Post
                      Failing batteries are not good enough to function as "ripple capacitors" and with enough time and output load you inverter will give you an error "Capacitor Overheat"
                      [FONT=lucida sans unicode]Error F45 Capacitor over-temperature shutdown at 105
                      I understand you Mike, so do you think one new set of Trojan L16RE with 370AH OR 2 set of 225AH golf cart batteries with total 450AH will be able to buffer the load that I have?
                      Thanks.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by paulcheung View Post
                        ...I understand you Mike, so do you think one new set of Trojan L16RE with 370AH OR 2 set of 225AH golf cart batteries with total 450AH will be able to buffer the load that I have? Thanks.
                        If your combined load is 4Kw, then 400ah should be OK. The L16 would be simpler wiring and watering and take less space. But they need a good hard charging at least 1x a week to prevent the tall case electrolyte from stratifying.

                        Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
                        || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
                        || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

                        solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
                        gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Mike90250 View Post

                          If your combined load is 4Kw, then 400ah should be OK. The L16 would be simpler wiring and watering and take less space. But they need a good hard charging at least 1x a week to prevent the tall case electrolyte from stratifying.
                          I won't worry about the stratifying, all I will worry about is too much current going to the battery in a short period of time, before the battery voltage reach to sell back point.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Hi guys,
                            I am getting the schneider conext combox and the XW6848 inverter. Do I need to down load software from the manufacture to program the inverter to assist and sell back to the power company when the battery bank near full? which software do I need to download?

                            Thank you in advance.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              The XW inverter already comes with firmware for sell back. Check with your dealer/vendor for the proper configuration for setting it up. Sometimes they are real finicky about configuring all the parts and not just some of them !
                              https://solar.schneider-electric.com...conext-combox/
                              https://solar.schneider-electric.com...olar-inverter/

                              The combox can readout the FW version and you can look up if any newer firmware is useful for your requirements. You should update the combox FW anyway, to be sure it has all the updated controls.
                              Powerfab top of pole PV mount (2) | Listeroid 6/1 w/st5 gen head | XW6048 inverter/chgr | Iota 48V/15A charger | Morningstar 60A MPPT | 48V, 800A NiFe Battery (in series)| 15, Evergreen 205w "12V" PV array on pole | Midnight ePanel | Grundfos 10 SO5-9 with 3 wire Franklin Electric motor (1/2hp 240V 1ph ) on a timer for 3 hr noontime run - Runs off PV ||
                              || Midnight Classic 200 | 10, Evergreen 200w in a 160VOC array ||
                              || VEC1093 12V Charger | Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger | SureSine | Sunsaver MPPT 15A

                              solar: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Solar
                              gen: http://tinyurl.com/LMR-Lister

                              Comment

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