Nickel Iron vs. Lead Acid - Off Grid battery debate

[johnpearcey]

Is that just the battery efficiency or does that include losses through the charger and inverter?

Just the battery.

[Ampster]

What efficiency do you reckon? I have a computer monitoring my batteries and logging the parameters every 5 secs. From my calculation so far, I seem to be getting 77% charge/discharge cycle. Interestingly though, there seems to be a dead level - the first 0.9amps charging contributes nothing. Can anyone else confirm this?

Is that just the battery efficiency or does that include losses through the charger and inverter?

[johnpearcey]

I'm happy enough, spent the $$$ already, and re-rejuvenated the electrolyte this last summer, still going and I never worry about sulfation destroying them in a week. But they are inefficient thirsty bastards

What efficiency do you reckon? I have a computer monitoring my batteries and logging the parameters every 5 secs. From my calculation so far, I seem to be getting 77% charge/discharge cycle. Interestingly though, there seems to be a dead level - the first 0.9amps charging contributes nothing. Can anyone else confirm this?

[johnpearcey]

Hi everyone,

I am interested in learning if you have any experience with non-traditional battery systems?

Is anyone using ni-cad or nickel iron? I am looking into Nickel Iron (ni-fe), anyone currently using these?

Thanks!

I'm currently using NiFe off-grid. Just changed over from lead-acid. Lead-acid are not actually cheaper despite what people keep saying. The capital outlay is more for equivalent *quoted* Ah. The problem with lead-acid is that you can't effectively use more than 20% of the quoted capacity. But with NiFe you can use all of it. So NiFe is 5x more useable capacity straight off. Not to mention that lead-acid plates disolve pretty damn quickly. They can be dead in 1 yr with daily cycles. I've been quoted at least 15 yrs for my NiFe by the manufacturer.
Also, if anyone needs to reduce the voltage to their inverter by 1 or 2 volts, a method I use is to add 2 or 3 forward biased diodes between the batteries and the inverter. It's not a particularly efficient method but it works. I charge my (38) batteries at 66v from either solar or genny and 3 diodes drop the voltage to 63.75v to the inverter, since my inverter cuts off at a little over 64v.

[Mike90250]

Is this because you are happy with them, or because you aren't happy with them?

I'm happy enough, spent the $$$ already, and re-rejuvenated the electrolyte this last summer, still going and I never worry about sulfation destroying them in a week. But they are inefficient thirsty bastards

[Sunking]

I've followed the Fe-Ni battery saga for a year or so: i believe if anyone is going to compete with energy trusts, it would have to be with such batteries.

There's right now a host of Fe-Ni vendors in China: so somebody MUST be buying them.

Then you must be a fool or Chi-Com? Edison never renewed his Patent and it expired in 1940's, Edison Electric sold the plant to Exide in in 1972, and production ceased in 1975.

Due to its low specific energy, poor charge retention, poor charge/discharge efficiency, high maintenance, and high cost of manufacture, other types of rechargeable batteries have antiquated NiFe batteries.

There only real application that can be justified is in Mining Industry for emergency lightning where batteries are exposed to high temps, heavy vibration. slow charge/discharge, efficiency and cost is of no concern.

[littleharbor]

I don't plan on buying another one.

Is this because you are happy with them, or because you aren't happy with them?

[Mike90250]

Well, I have a chicom set and bought it via BeUtilityFree.com I don't plan on buying another one. I think they have a lot of domestic use in China

[J.P.M.]

Perhaps. I spoke to Iron Edison at SPI and they didn't seem at all to be marketing hypesters. In fact the technical guy there warned me about assuming that nickel iron batteries were a drop-in replacement for any other kind of battery.

Somehow this seems to have gotten off the rails.

My comments to KIRK1's comment was meant to suggest that if he believes "there's right now a host of Fe-Ni vendors in china so somebody must be buying Fe-Ni batteries" (according to who, BTW ?) he may be a victim of the same type of marketing hype that Musk tries to pull off with is production capability fantasies and projections. That is, China MAY have all sorts of production capacity, but China MAY also (or rather) have a goal of making folks think they have all sorts of production capacity that they in fact do not have, and/or/also that would like folks to think sales are greater than actual for reasons of their own. Or, there may indeed be a boatload of vendors who aren't producing as much or as profitably as they'd like everyone to think.

Then too, the idea that there's a lot of Fe-Ni Chinese batteries sold seems to be an statement that could use some verification and context.

[jflorey2]

Yes, I'm aware of that. I was referencing the possible similarities of marketing techniques that create an aura around a fallacy to give the impression of a reality that does not quite exist.

Perhaps. I spoke to Iron Edison at SPI and they didn't seem at all to be marketing hypesters. In fact the technical guy there warned me about assuming that nickel iron batteries were a drop-in replacement for any other kind of battery.

[J.P.M.]

?? Tesla doesn't sell NiFe.

Yes, I'm aware of that. I was referencing the possible similarities of marketing techniques that create an aura around a fallacy to give the impression of a reality that does not quite exist.

[jflorey2]

Why ? Ever think maybe all slick marketing like Tesla ?

?? Tesla doesn't sell NiFe.

The new sales are likely going to Iron Edison, a vendor who sells and integrates both LiFePO4 and NiFe storage systems.

[J.P.M.]

There's right now a host of Fe-Ni vendors in China: so somebody MUST be buying them.

Why ? Ever think maybe all slick marketing like Tesla ?

I've followed the Fe-Ni battery saga for a year or so: i believe if anyone is going to compete with energy trusts, it would have to be with such batteries.

There's right now a host of Fe-Ni vendors in China: so somebody MUST be buying them.

Well, I have on order a set of NiFe batteries [bank of 800 a/h]. So, no experience, yet, but looking forward to it and never having lead-acid again. Though I've had great luck with them, more than 20 yr. on my present set.

But, stay tuned. I shall be glad to relate both good and bad I find with the NiFes once I get them and am using them.

If you need high quality deep cycle batteries, take a look at NiFe batteries.