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Nickel Iron vs. Lead Acid - Off Grid battery debate

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  • awcristelli
    replied
    I am looking to replace my present FLA

    Leave a comment:


  • Cult of Dionysus
    replied
    Think the prices being thrown here by some are really ridiculous.

    You can buy a 48 volt / 400Ah NiFE battery kit on Iron Edison for $15,200. A set of 8 top of the line Rolls/Surrette 6 CS 21Ps (48 volt / 683Ah) runs about $8,200. The Rolls (which I have) come with a 10 year warranty I believe and can withstand up to 50% DoD. The NiFe are estimated to last 30 years and supposedly can withstand 80% DoD.

    These two systems, to my relatively lay mind, provide similar usable performance. One system costs more upfront, but could easily last 2x, if not 3x as long.

    Leave a comment:


  • robotek
    replied
    Just read this whole thread with great interest. Surprised that nobody got wind of this http://news.stanford.edu/news/2012/j...ry-062612.html

    [I] "Fact is there is ZERO interest, ZERO money, and Zero research going into NiFe. That ought to tell everyone something about them."[/I]

    May be more interest than you think!

    Leave a comment:


  • Sundetective
    replied
    Originally posted by ket222 View Post
    could you please tell me more about what was wrong with the Sandia National Labs / Encell Technology Report?
    There is a little bit in the thread called -

    NiFe USA Series Batteries.

    This is probably the wrong thread for such shame.

    Bill Blake

    Leave a comment:


  • ket222
    replied
    encell

    could you please tell me more about what was wrong with the Sandia National Labs / Encell Technology Report?

    Leave a comment:


  • Sundetective
    replied
    Originally posted by DWBayless View Post
    Florida is where the Encell factory is located.

    Cycle data for the Encell batteries, provided by Encell, via Iron Edison, insinuates that they will last an awful long time compared to the Changhong units, but the oldest battery they've sold is not very old yet and I'm not psychologically set up to be an early adopter - most especially when so much cash is involved. I'm going to go with FLAs, at a fraction of the price, and see what happens on the battery front in the next few years.
    Hi,

    I remembered about Florida later. That will Learn me not to run out of
    Tumeric caps.

    After reading the Sandia National Labs / Encell Technology Report

    a few times all I wanted to do is forget about those Iron Edison USA batteries.
    Never saw anything so bad but I stay quiet about it
    because who cares.

    I hear you on the FLA Batteries.

    Only smart move old Bill sees right now.
    However I would want to pamper dem with a Slave Bank
    behind them that doesn't
    Sulfate, can take days to charge (but likes it), can last for decades and
    on and on.
    If generator fuel was 6 bucks or more it will begin to make perfect sense.

    If you want Rolls 5000 units write me off list for a great Lead.

    Bill Blake

    Leave a comment:


  • DWBayless
    replied
    Originally posted by Sundetective View Post
    Yes, when Mr.Edison closed his NiFe Battery factory (for going on 5 years)
    the biggest problem was the Graphite was 'doing' the man.

    Though it was wonderful to work with in many ways he just had to get
    rid of it (and stay rid of it) to get Longevity.

    In 2014 'Changhong and The Electric Indian' fessed up to using
    Graphite in their NiFe Cells - the devils

    Changhong Lies about graphite in their MSDS which is rare
    since they normally seem to be very honorable.
    It's their new Dealer in Colorado who needs to be watched so closely.

    Who or what is in Florida ?

    Bill Blake

    Florida is where the Encell factory is located.

    Cycle data for the Encell batteries, provided by Encell, via Iron Edison, insinuates that they will last an awful long time compared to the Changhong units, but the oldest battery they've sold is not very old yet and I'm not psychologically set up to be an early adopter - most especially when so much cash is involved. I'm going to go with FLAs, at a fraction of the price, and see what happens on the battery front in the next few years.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sundetective
    replied
    Yes

    Originally posted by DWBayless View Post
    Many of the stories I see about how well NiFes do, that have lasted for many years, are from people with the old, original Edison cells. Is there anything in their manufacture that would suggest that they would be particularly more robust than the current offerings from Florida, China, or Russia? What about the Zappworks battery? Are they still refurbished old cells, or are they manufacturing to Edison's specifications?

    There is a dearth of real information about these cells out there, and darn it!, I'm a drunken public affairs type... (currently non-praticing) not a battery engineer.
    Yes, when Mr.Edison closed his NiFe Battery factory (for going on 5 years)
    the biggest problem was the Graphite was 'doing' the man.

    Though it was wonderful to work with in many ways he just had to get
    rid of it (and stay rid of it) to get Longevity.

    In 2014 'Changhong and The Electric Indian' fessed up to using
    Graphite in their NiFe Cells - the devils

    Changhong Lies about graphite in their MSDS which is rare
    since they normally seem to be very honorable.
    It's their new Dealer in Colorado who needs to be watched so closely.

    Who or what is in Florida ?

    Bill Blake

    Leave a comment:


  • Living Large
    replied
    Originally posted by Sunking View Post
    Well if you are willing to drop the big bucks on NiFe, for about half the cash can get much better results with Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries if you know what you are doing. Otherwise stick with FLA.
    That is what I would do. They fit my application very well, with quick charging for off-grid use (relatively), light weight, low maintenance, relatively safe. Cost is not a lot more than a good bank of FLA.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sunking
    replied
    Originally posted by DWBayless View Post
    The closer I get to pulling the trigger on equipment, the more reluctant I am to drop this much cash on these. I've decided to go the more traveled path, and get FLA.

    Thanks for the debate, and thanks to Bill for the links, in this, and other forums to documentation that would otherwise be awfully difficult to find.

    Cheers,
    Daryle
    Well if you are willing to drop the big bucks on NiFe, for about half the cash can get much better results with Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries if you know what you are doing. Otherwise stick with FLA.

    Leave a comment:


  • DWBayless
    replied
    Going FLA

    The closer I get to pulling the trigger on equipment, the more reluctant I am to drop this much cash on these. I've decided to go the more traveled path, and get FLA.

    Thanks for the debate, and thanks to Bill for the links, in this, and other forums to documentation that would otherwise be awfully difficult to find.

    Cheers,
    Daryle

    Leave a comment:


  • Sundetective
    replied
    Distilled shares traits with deionized.
    There is an interesting article in the 1/5/15 Edition of
    Ask the Experts at
    www.circuitnet.com

    Titled: Deionized Water Sample Testing.

    One of the experts called it a very "hungry" acid
    to get the point across.

    Switching to the mylar / plastics industry it's amazing the amount
    of "gas" transmission (like oxygen) that they can measure
    traveling right through plastic.

    You can get Mylar bags that fit the proper drums if your up
    to date and slick.

    Bill Blake

    Leave a comment:


  • inetdog
    replied
    Originally posted by Mike90250 View Post
    I have actually bought a water still, but it's winter, and short on power till the sun comes back. But first, I'll have to figure how to store 30 -50 gallons of distilled water with out it going bad. Something that won't leach into the water, opaque to prevent algae growth, and be easy to dispense with.
    I do not think that you have to worry much about algae growth in distilled water, since there are no nutrients in it at all. But maybe the algae brought a little bag of dirt along with them? The leaching of chemicals is more of a concern, but I have no idea what those organics would do in your NiFe. The most important reason for distilled/deionized s to eliminate ionic solutes with their Na, Ca, K, etc. and their Cl, carbonates and sulfates.

    Leave a comment:


  • Robert1234
    replied
    Also...

    Another thought that I just never followed up on because I get all my deionized water for free...

    Take 2 gallon jugs and connect them via an overhead line.
    Paint one white and the other black (as well as paint the line black).
    Fill the black jug with tap water and place outside in the sun.

    Theoretically, I believe one would get 1/2-3/4 gallon distilled water in the white jug in a week or so. What I'm not sure of is whether there will be any measureable organic content. Would probably have to do a COD analysis to be sure, but it should be VERY small (in the ppm range for organics).

    Leave a comment:


  • Robert1234
    replied
    Originally posted by Mike90250 View Post
    I have actually bought a water still, but it's winter, and short on power till the sun comes back. But first, I'll have to figure how to store 30 -50 gallons of distilled water with out it going bad. Something that won't leach into the water, opaque to prevent algae growth, and be easy to dispense with.
    Mike, Get you one of those old blue poly drums. $69 brand new & I can get them for 5-10$ a piece around here (or sometimes free) from the recycler.

    [Edit]...

    http://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/...A&gclsrc=aw.ds

    Leave a comment:

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