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Nickel Iron vs. Lead Acid - Off Grid battery debate

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  • Mike90250
    replied
    Originally posted by sahucker View Post
    I don't have any PV system, yet. But if I needed a large quantity of distilled water, was off-grid and had extra electricity available mid-day, I might use a copper still like my wife uses for essential oil production.
    I have actually bought a water still, but it's winter, and short on power till the sun comes back. But first, I'll have to figure how to store 30 -50 gallons of distilled water with out it going bad. Something that won't leach into the water, opaque to prevent algae growth, and be easy to dispense with.

    Leave a comment:


  • inetdog
    replied
    Originally posted by sahucker View Post
    I don't have any PV system, yet. But if I needed a large quantity of distilled water, was off-grid and had extra electricity available mid-day, I might use a copper still like my wife uses for essential oil production.
    A very interesting opportunity load, and one which Mike may end up looking at if he has a surplus in the summer.

    Leave a comment:


  • sahucker
    replied
    distilled water

    I don't have any PV system, yet. But if I needed a large quantity of distilled water, was off-grid and had extra electricity available mid-day, I might use a copper still like my wife uses for essential oil production.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mike90250
    replied
    Originally posted by sahucker View Post
    A few pages back Mike indicated that at 5 years in he could decide if he chose wisely....is this the year of enlightenment?
    Scott
    "October 2011 Battery Prep and install" So I have a little while to go still. I am keeping the local DI water store in business

    I don't sweat wondering about getting a full charge after 3 weeks of cloudy weather, they don't have anything bad (that I know of) happen if they are not regularly filled up.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sundetective
    replied
    Indolence is a much bigger problem with Nickel Iron Batteries
    than any technical problem.

    It's no secret that Mr. Thomas Edison had things to say as does
    Changhong Batteries in China today.

    Do people listen?

    A few examples.

    Changhong gives the best, most concise, education about water consumption
    a person could ask for.

    Changhong warns you about the tragedy that will happen if you listen to some rogue,
    jive salesman and also shows you the thousands of cycles that are possible
    If you treat their product with care and respect.

    How often you need to check the electrolyte for carbonates and other impurities
    is based on how the batteries are being used according to the latest
    NiFe Operators and Maintenence manual.

    Saying your Nickel Iron Battery Internal Resistance problems are found mostly in the
    Top Half of capacity is just working against yourself according to
    Mighty 'Changhong and The Electric Indian'

    Their NiFe Batteries were not designed to be run in a run-down
    fashion in any way. Internal Resistance gets 4 times higher at 90% DOD
    than it is at 50% DOD.

    It goes on and on.

    Another big problem is some people like to attack but can't seem to
    find any way to attack the education getting Laid out on the peoples.

    Let's do another Internet First by Old Bill and see if anyone can
    Attack da man based on this hard data.

    By (or before) 1915 Mr. Edison seems to have had enough with
    the NiFe electrolyte.
    He started to recommend that people just begin to
    use a simple Battery Hydrometer on their
    Edison Nickel Iron Cells starting around 300 cycles to determine when it is
    necessary to empty the old solution out and put in new.

    Plain and simple. NO minced words.

    Why did we need 100 years for dis revelation ?

    Bill Blake

    Leave a comment:


  • Living Large
    replied
    Originally posted by Sunking View Post
    I have talked to Mike a few times. He wil have to speak for himself, but I get the impression if he had to do it over again knowing what he knows now would have gone a different direction. NiFe just has way too many negatives.
    I spent 2Mh reading this entire thread. My fire has died down to 95%DOD and my back hurts from slouching here on the couch.

    My guess would be you are on the right track. I'm reading about high water consumption, buying 100 gallons of distilled water at $1/gallon and squeezing it into cells, conducting pseudo-lab tests every 200 cycles, possible replacement of electrolyte, low efficiency at the upper half of the capacity, etc etc.

    There is a lot of information here, test results, blather, an alleged ringer, a tragic accident and jail sentence. Quite a thread.

    [B]Edit [/B]- should add that I came to this thread after tripping across the Iron website. It is a bit hard to navigate, but I found NiFe and LFP battery solutions sold there, and came back here to see what was under the Ni thread to find out more about NiFe. This site has a lot to offer.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sunking
    replied
    Originally posted by sahucker View Post
    A few pages back Mike indicated that at 5 years in he could decide if he chose wisely....is this the year of enlightenment?
    Scott
    I have talked to Mike a few times. He wil have to speak for himself, but I get the impression if he had to do it over again knowing what he knows now would have gone a different direction. NiFe just has way too many negatives.

    Leave a comment:


  • inetdog
    replied
    Originally posted by sahucker View Post
    A few pages back Mike indicated that at 5 years in he could decide if he chose wisely....is this the year of enlightenment?
    Scott
    Nope, still the dark ages. I believe Mike got his iron in 2012?

    Leave a comment:


  • sahucker
    replied
    Coming up on 5 years

    A few pages back Mike indicated that at 5 years in he could decide if he chose wisely....is this the year of enlightenment?
    Scott

    Leave a comment:


  • Sundetective
    replied
    Most people are not worried about having a Submarine but may like
    Survival batteries IF THEY WERE RIGHT.

    The question remains does the book I talk about exist or not ??
    [HTML][/HTML]
    Did they outfit the E2 Submarine with Nickel Iron Cells or not ?

    Did Mr. Edison start production on Submarine Ni-Fe batteries for the US Navy
    Before the E2 explosion or not. Did they stop production on the
    Detroit Electric Car batteries because of the 15 million dollar Navy contract ?

    You want to talk about all the Ni-Fe Lies and con jobs.
    Who ever explained them more than old Bill did?

    It's old news. Everyone ran out of time for it.

    I'm talkin bout the Lost Survival Technology that was in the E2.
    So they vent it this time in the battery shed.
    Big deal.

    Bill Blake

    Leave a comment:


  • Sunking
    replied
    Bill this is just plain ole everyday silly. You are just trying to divert attention away from facts. The USN has never ever commissioned a USS with NiFe batteries and never will period. Since the 70's there are are 3 batteries approved end of story. Those are [COLOR=#000000][FONT=Times New Roman]PDX-57, ASB-49, and LLL-69 all made by Exide. Example the PDX-59 is used on Ohio Class [/FONT][/COLOR][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]submarines[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][COLOR=#000000][FONT=Times New Roman]. They are 2 volt, 10,000 AH cells weighing 210 pounds. The engine room used 209 of them in series.

    [/FONT][/COLOR]The only other battery under consideration is a pure lead AGM VRLA battery being developed by the only approved manufacture Exide. They have been testing for 10 years and have another 5 to 10 years before getting the OK for DOD. That is a fact. Look it up yourself

    There is no research or development on NiFe. Just a handful of companies and distributors trying to cash in on peoples ignorance. No utility or industry use them anymore because they are relics and cannot match price and performance of today's lead acid and lithium. Even mining and railroads quit using them which was their forte. Those industries now use wet NiCd large format cells.

    You argument is on the same lines of 8-Track and Cassette tapes will make a comeback and be the standard recording media. It aint going to happen. Lithium and Lead Carbon at this time are the future. Lead Carbon in utility and RE applications, and lithium for mobile applications. For at least the next 30 years USS will be lead acid. It takes a minimum of 10 years of R&D plus another 20 years of real time data to get on a sub. NiFe is DOA in industry. It was buried with Edison.

    Leave a comment:


  • DWBayless
    replied
    Many of the stories I see about how well NiFes do, that have lasted for many years, are from people with the old, original Edison cells. Is there anything in their manufacture that would suggest that they would be particularly more robust than the current offerings from Florida, China, or Russia? What about the Zappworks battery? Are they still refurbished old cells, or are they manufacturing to Edison's specifications?

    There is a dearth of real information about these cells out there, and darn it!, I'm a drunken public affairs type... (currently non-praticing) not a battery engineer.

    Leave a comment:


  • DWBayless
    replied
    I sometimes wish I still worked at the Naval History and Heritage Command. They have all of those old deck logs on file. It would be an interesting few hours, reading them.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sundetective
    replied
    the Legendary Captain / Admiral Charles M. "Savvy" Cooke Jr.

    Some of that Getting ready for WWI Story was brushed on in the

    'Nickel Iron (Ni-Fe) Battery Life Cycle Chart .. From the Manufacturer'

    Thread Located in the Fieldlines Forum.

    The Hydrogen problem was a ventilation issue that was predicted by
    The Legendary (eventual)

    Admiral Charles M. "Savvy" Cooke Jr.

    There was a lot of politics involved aside from any merits of the Ni-Fe.
    It no Lie.

    They tried to hang the whole deal on Savvy but people knew better deep down.
    He and his entire Submarine crew are pure Legend.

    There is a nice taste about Commander / Captain / Four Star Admiral Charles "Savvy" Cooke
    In the Fieldlines Thread.

    Old Bill Blake

    Leave a comment:


  • russ
    replied
    Originally posted by Sundetective View Post
    What happened? How could it all be Lost Knowledge now ?

    Bill Blake
    What happened now Blathering Bill?

    Leave a comment:

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