Nickel Iron vs. Lead Acid - Off Grid battery debate

[Mike90250]

They are a very niche application. They are less efficient than LA. Need special voltage setup in charge controllers & inverter setpoints.
They consume a lot of water, I use about 6-10 gall monthly, doing about 1/3 of the bank at a time. They need a messy electrolyte change out every 5-10 years
They survive long cloud events when you have days of no hope for solar charging, and can't complete absorbcloudy days Jan2017.png

And the week before
cloudy days.png

So, to keep from flattening a LA bank, you'd need to run a generator a couple long days to complete a cycle, or risk sulfating LA batteries. Me, I just run enough (about 2 hrs day) to keep the power flowing till the next day
Li batteries (LFP, LiPo4) Look hopeful, but have not had a lot of consumer history, and have some thermal concerns when chargeing in the cold

[Sunking]

I am looking to replace my FLA battery bank and am looking at NIFE battery. Has anyone had them for a few years and how are they doing? would you recommend them, or if not why.

Thanks
Andy

Stay away from them.

[inetdog]

I am looking to replace my FLA battery bank and am looking at NIFE battery. Has anyone had them for a few years and how are they doing? would you recommend them, or if not why.

Thanks
Andy

Search the forum for posts by Mike90250 and the keyword NiFe over the last couple of years.

[awcristelli]

I am looking to replace my FLA battery bank and am looking at NIFE battery. Has anyone had them for a few years and how are they doing? would you recommend them, or if not why.

Thanks
Andy

[awcristelli]

I am looking to replace my present FLA

[Cult of Dionysus]

Think the prices being thrown here by some are really ridiculous.

You can buy a 48 volt / 400Ah NiFE battery kit on Iron Edison for $15,200. A set of 8 top of the line Rolls/Surrette 6 CS 21Ps (48 volt / 683Ah) runs about $8,200. The Rolls (which I have) come with a 10 year warranty I believe and can withstand up to 50% DoD. The NiFe are estimated to last 30 years and supposedly can withstand 80% DoD.

These two systems, to my relatively lay mind, provide similar usable performance. One system costs more upfront, but could easily last 2x, if not 3x as long.

[robotek]

Just read this whole thread with great interest. Surprised that nobody got wind of this http://news.stanford.edu/news/2012/j...ry-062612.html

"Fact is there is ZERO interest, ZERO money, and Zero research going into NiFe. That ought to tell everyone something about them."

May be more interest than you think!

[Sundetective]

could you please tell me more about what was wrong with the Sandia National Labs / Encell Technology Report?

There is a little bit in the thread called -

NiFe USA Series Batteries.

This is probably the wrong thread for such shame.

Bill Blake

[ket222]

encell

could you please tell me more about what was wrong with the Sandia National Labs / Encell Technology Report?

[Sundetective]

Florida is where the Encell factory is located.

Cycle data for the Encell batteries, provided by Encell, via Iron Edison, insinuates that they will last an awful long time compared to the Changhong units, but the oldest battery they've sold is not very old yet and I'm not psychologically set up to be an early adopter - most especially when so much cash is involved. I'm going to go with FLAs, at a fraction of the price, and see what happens on the battery front in the next few years.

Hi,

I remembered about Florida later. That will Learn me not to run out of
Tumeric caps.

After reading the Sandia National Labs / Encell Technology Report

a few times all I wanted to do is forget about those Iron Edison USA batteries.
Never saw anything so bad but I stay quiet about it
because who cares.

I hear you on the FLA Batteries.

Only smart move old Bill sees right now.
However I would want to pamper dem with a Slave Bank
behind them that doesn't
Sulfate, can take days to charge (but likes it), can last for decades and
on and on.
If generator fuel was 6 bucks or more it will begin to make perfect sense.

If you want Rolls 5000 units write me off list for a great Lead.

Bill Blake

[DWBayless]

Yes, when Mr.Edison closed his NiFe Battery factory (for going on 5 years)
the biggest problem was the Graphite was 'doing' the man.

Though it was wonderful to work with in many ways he just had to get
rid of it (and stay rid of it) to get Longevity.

In 2014 'Changhong and The Electric Indian' fessed up to using
Graphite in their NiFe Cells - the devils

Changhong Lies about graphite in their MSDS which is rare
since they normally seem to be very honorable.
It's their new Dealer in Colorado who needs to be watched so closely.

Who or what is in Florida ?

Bill Blake

Florida is where the Encell factory is located.

Cycle data for the Encell batteries, provided by Encell, via Iron Edison, insinuates that they will last an awful long time compared to the Changhong units, but the oldest battery they've sold is not very old yet and I'm not psychologically set up to be an early adopter - most especially when so much cash is involved. I'm going to go with FLAs, at a fraction of the price, and see what happens on the battery front in the next few years.

[Sundetective]

Yes

Many of the stories I see about how well NiFes do, that have lasted for many years, are from people with the old, original Edison cells. Is there anything in their manufacture that would suggest that they would be particularly more robust than the current offerings from Florida, China, or Russia? What about the Zappworks battery? Are they still refurbished old cells, or are they manufacturing to Edison's specifications?

There is a dearth of real information about these cells out there, and darn it!, I'm a drunken public affairs type... (currently non-praticing) not a battery engineer.

Yes, when Mr.Edison closed his NiFe Battery factory (for going on 5 years)
the biggest problem was the Graphite was 'doing' the man.

Though it was wonderful to work with in many ways he just had to get
rid of it (and stay rid of it) to get Longevity.

In 2014 'Changhong and The Electric Indian' fessed up to using
Graphite in their NiFe Cells - the devils

Changhong Lies about graphite in their MSDS which is rare
since they normally seem to be very honorable.
It's their new Dealer in Colorado who needs to be watched so closely.

Who or what is in Florida ?

Bill Blake

[Living Large]

Well if you are willing to drop the big bucks on NiFe, for about half the cash can get much better results with Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries if you know what you are doing. Otherwise stick with FLA.

That is what I would do. They fit my application very well, with quick charging for off-grid use (relatively), light weight, low maintenance, relatively safe. Cost is not a lot more than a good bank of FLA.

[Sunking]

The closer I get to pulling the trigger on equipment, the more reluctant I am to drop this much cash on these. I've decided to go the more traveled path, and get FLA.

Thanks for the debate, and thanks to Bill for the links, in this, and other forums to documentation that would otherwise be awfully difficult to find.

Cheers,
Daryle

Well if you are willing to drop the big bucks on NiFe, for about half the cash can get much better results with Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries if you know what you are doing. Otherwise stick with FLA.

[DWBayless]

Going FLA

The closer I get to pulling the trigger on equipment, the more reluctant I am to drop this much cash on these. I've decided to go the more traveled path, and get FLA.

Thanks for the debate, and thanks to Bill for the links, in this, and other forums to documentation that would otherwise be awfully difficult to find.

Cheers,
Daryle