Noob! Noob! Noob! - regarding the Grail - Where's the best deal on Cells please?

[Solaron]

Well....good news is my solar panels should be alot stronger than i thought they were unless i have fried the cells by improperly measuring current. They still charge my batteries so i think they are fine. I need to invest in a decent meter i think, mine doesn't have clamps and was only about 10 bucks. Thanks for the info.

You can measure the voltage that way but not the current. That requires the cell to be connected to a load like a resister or even the charger will do. You would then use a DC "clamp on" amp meter to measure the current going through the positive or negative wire.

Do you have a DC clamp on amp meter? If not then there are other in line type that have the proper electronics to measure the amperage as long as the cell is connected to some type of load. They can be purchased from a Radio Control Hobby store since there are a lot of RC that use electric motors and batteries.

[SunEagle]

Understood and I agree 100%. I've been doing some research and have discoverd I'm most likely using the meter wrong and could probably stand to use a better one too. I guess just touching positive wire on meter to positive on solar cell and same with negative is not advisable. Without a resister, I'm not going to get a good reading on the meter. Am i on the right track here?

You can measure the voltage that way but not the current. That requires the cell to be connected to a load like a resister or even the charger will do. You would then use a DC "clamp on" amp meter to measure the current going through the positive or negative wire.

Do you have a DC clamp on amp meter? If not then there are other in line type that have the proper electronics to measure the amperage as long as the cell is connected to some type of load. They can be purchased from a Radio Control Hobby store since there are a lot of RC that use electric motors and batteries.

[Solaron]

Understood and I agree 100%. I've been doing some research and have discoverd I'm most likely using the meter wrong and could probably stand to use a better one too. I guess just touching positive wire on meter to positive on solar cell and same with negative is not advisable. Without a resister, I'm not going to get a good reading on the meter. Am i on the right track here?

Your multi-meter is your best friend and most important tool in DIY electronics. Not to sound mean but you need to learn how to use yours correctly and safely. Without it you have no idea what is going on because you have no other way to measure (besides other forms of metering).

Don't feel bad though, I've been building, inventing and experimenting for over 30 years and I continue to learn new things every day. As a matter of coincidence with this topic I just bought a new multi-meter with all the bells and whistles and I am having to learn how to use it even though I already know the basics.

[SunEagle]

off topic? it's all about solar.... all these hijacked threads make this forum interesting reading
yes, sounds the way to go... build the smallest allowable house with detached pole barn for your RV. Locate/design the pole barn so you can use the roof for solar panels. Once you get that RV in the shade your AC needs may go way down.

That's my DIY plan. RV Shed roof will be at the correct angle and have a real good Southern exposure for the PV array. Hopefully there will still be good panels available in a few years when I now plan to build.

[FloridaSun]

Sounds like a real nice place. Enjoy.

The zoning is for homes only. Can't get a power pole unless I jump through all of the flaming hoops no matter what I build up there. Was going to build a retirement home with a 5kw grid tie system. I now own an RV so not sure now if I will just put up a smaller house with an area to store the RV.

Until then I would rather use my small off grid system to charge my RV coach batteries instead of the on board 5500w gen set. Of course once it gets hot I will need to run the gen set for AC because the off grid system is too small. I don't want to expand the small system (made up of 80 and 90 watt panels) because the battery cost will eat me alive. Still like to go the DIY route but not with building panels.

I guess that is enough off topic discussion for now.

off topic? it's all about solar.... all these hijacked threads make this forum interesting reading
yes, sounds the way to go... build the smallest allowable house with detached pole barn for your RV. Locate/design the pole barn so you can use the roof for solar panels. Once you get that RV in the shade your AC needs may go way down.

[SunEagle]

I'm in central FL, out hwy 60 east of Lake Wales. Granpa bought this lakeside acre in 1958 when he retired from the dept of state in Wash, DC, two houses here so not much needs added, nothing but maintenance forever to do here now. Best sun is way in back on a workshop by the woods and huge pasture adjoining but have some 60 foot pines shading the east side there. Perfect place for grid tie panels at front house but really no need as my electric bill is less that $50 a month now (maybe half that going to a 1hp well pump for irrigation of gardens). I just play with a small system now, have a bit of 'free' lol elect. during hurricane times.
What's the zoning on your 15 acres? Can't get a power pole in for a camp trailer? I found living off grid to suit me well when I did it in N Calif. Did involve much more exercise cutting wood and hauling water but really is a healthier way to live..,. and so peaceful without that 60hz hum around. For a few weekends a year I wouldn't even bother with the grid. You'll have more fun playing with a solar system.

Sounds like a real nice place. Enjoy.

The zoning is for homes only. Can't get a power pole unless I jump through all of the flaming hoops no matter what I build up there. Was going to build a retirement home with a 5kw grid tie system. I now own an RV so not sure now if I will just put up a smaller house with an area to store the RV.

Until then I would rather use my small off grid system to charge my RV coach batteries instead of the on board 5500w gen set. Of course once it gets hot I will need to run the gen set for AC because the off grid system is too small. I don't want to expand the small system (made up of 80 and 90 watt panels) because the battery cost will eat me alive. Still like to go the DIY route but not with building panels.

I guess that is enough off topic discussion for now.

[FloridaSun]

What neck of the woods in FL do you hale from? I live in the Clearwater area but plan on using my small (500watt) PV system on my property up in North Florida when I camp.

I would rather get a grid tie connection but before I can get Utility power I will have to supply a house plan, put in a well, septic tank system, upgrade the road entrance culvert, pay an impact fee ($3500) and do some clearing. Based on today's prices that will easily exceed $10,000 just to spend a few weekends a year. Oh, also once I do all this then my taxes go up because it is now "improved" property instead of 15 acres of trees and open space. So it is an off grid DIY PV solar generation system for me for now.

I'm in central FL, out hwy 60 east of Lake Wales. Granpa bought this lakeside acre in 1958 when he retired from the dept of state in Wash, DC, two houses here so not much needs added, nothing but maintenance forever to do here now. Best sun is way in back on a workshop by the woods and huge pasture adjoining but have some 60 foot pines shading the east side there. Perfect place for grid tie panels at front house but really no need as my electric bill is less that $50 a month now (maybe half that going to a 1hp well pump for irrigation of gardens). I just play with a small system now, have a bit of 'free' lol elect. during hurricane times.
What's the zoning on your 15 acres? Can't get a power pole in for a camp trailer? I found living off grid to suit me well when I did it in N Calif. Did involve much more exercise cutting wood and hauling water but really is a healthier way to live..,. and so peaceful without that 60hz hum around. For a few weekends a year I wouldn't even bother with the grid. You'll have more fun playing with a solar system.

[green]

I gotta be reading the meter wrong! I hate to sound ignorant here but don't know what else to say.

Your multi-meter is your best friend and most important tool in DIY electronics. Not to sound mean but you need to learn how to use yours correctly and safely. Without it you have no idea what is going on because you have no other way to measure (besides other forms of metering).

Don't feel bad though, I've been building, inventing and experimenting for over 30 years and I continue to learn new things every day. As a matter of coincidence with this topic I just bought a new multi-meter with all the bells and whistles and I am having to learn how to use it even though I already know the basics.

[SunEagle]

Sounding ignorant can be only a temporary issue. The reals fools are one's like the OP in this thread who has run off after embarrassing his self.
You might consider consolidating your most useful panels into one mppt charge controller. Good way to squeeze out a few extra amps daily from your panels and use your generator less. I'm among trees too but still get good sun from 10am to 4pm, the best time. Checked my system this morning and getting one amp from a 145w panel (panels cost 79 cents a watt) in the 9am full shade. With a cheapo mppt you could be getting that+ with 3x75w panels working correctly.

What neck of the woods in FL do you hale from? I live in the Clearwater area but plan on using my small (500watt) PV system on my property up in North Florida when I camp.

I would rather get a grid tie connection but before I can get Utility power I will have to supply a house plan, put in a well, septic tank system, upgrade the road entrance culvert, pay an impact fee ($3500) and do some clearing. Based on today's prices that will easily exceed $10,000 just to spend a few weekends a year. Oh, also once I do all this then my taxes go up because it is now "improved" property instead of 15 acres of trees and open space. So it is an off grid DIY PV solar generation system for me for now.

[FloridaSun]

I'm gonna do some looking into this tonight. If i am reading the meter wrong (hopefully) i am then I should be good because instead of .400 amps, maybe it's 4 amps, If not, i wonder what i messed up on? I gotta be reading the meter wrong! I hate to sound ignorant here but don't know what else to say.

Sounding ignorant can be only a temporary issue. The reals fools are one's like the OP in this thread who has run off after embarrassing his self.
You might consider consolidating your most useful panels into one mppt charge controller. Good way to squeeze out a few extra amps daily from your panels and use your generator less. I'm among trees too but still get good sun from 10am to 4pm, the best time. Checked my system this morning and getting one amp from a 145w panel (panels cost 79 cents a watt) in the 9am full shade. With a cheapo mppt you could be getting that+ with 3x75w panels working correctly.

[SunEagle]

I'm gonna do some looking into this tonight. If i am reading the meter wrong (hopefully) i am then I should be good because instead of .400 amps, maybe it's 4 amps, If not, i wonder what i messed up on? I gotta be reading the meter wrong! I hate to sound ignorant here but don't know what else to say.

I hope you are reading the meter incorrectly also. The best way to tell where the problem is will be to break down your "system" and check each component or panel individually. If you have hooked up a number of different "systems" (DIY, Harbor Freight, etc) together there may be an issue with one system fighting the other. Electricity is very simple to understand if you realize it will always take the path of least resistance even if it is flowing "upstream" from one system to another.

[Solaron]

I'm gonna do some looking into this tonight. If i am reading the meter wrong (hopefully) i am then I should be good because instead of .400 amps, maybe it's 4 amps, If not, i wonder what i messed up on? I gotta be reading the meter wrong! I hate to sound ignorant here but don't know what else to say.

That amperage per cell is way too low. A really good Grade A 6 x 6 cell will produce about 0.5vdc at about 8 amps or 4 watts each. Wire up about 36 of these cells and you get about 18vdc at 8 amps for a total of 144 watts. Most other cells produce less amperage but still about 0.5vdc.

If you can check a single cell and see what voltage it puts out.

[SunEagle]

FloridaSun

You know, i've wondered the same thing myself for the longest time. I too thought i might be reading the meter wrong but i'm just not sure anymore. Each cell individually produces about .350-.400 amps i've found unless I'm reading that wrong as well? Each of the 40 cells are soldered in a series so the amps should stay the same and voltage increased. Maybe you can help me figure this out?

I guess i should mention that there are also two Harbor Freight 45 Watt panel kits attached to the generator, and an additional homeade one attached. Since they are all different voltages and current, i have them attached with different charge controllers. i'd say there's roughly 3-4 amps charging this battery bank. the battery bank only consists of three 160 RC deep cycle batteries. Not sure the exact amp hours but somewhere between 200-240 ah. If i drain them down to 50 percent it usually takes roughly a week sometimes less to fully recharge them.

That amperage per cell is way too low. A really good Grade A 6 x 6 cell will produce about 0.5vdc at about 8 amps or 4 watts each. Wire up about 36 of these cells and you get about 18vdc at 8 amps for a total of 144 watts. Most other cells produce less amperage but still about 0.5vdc.

If you can check a single cell and see what voltage it puts out.

[Solaron]

Thanks for chiming in, you must like a good dispute as well as me

Either way, this whole disagreement doesn't have to do with me not knowing something or being wrong about anything, it only has to do with others egos and attitutude when responding to posts and being discourtious/disrespectful of others. Thanks for keeping the dispute going, thought we dropped it yesterday.

I so enjoyed reading this thread that I had to pipe up, too.

I came here looking to learn and get advice. I got it. I didn't like a lot of it, especially at first. Why? Because the people who know a ****load more than me were very honest and like virtually everyone on earth, if we want something to be, we don't like to hear anything that goes against it. That does not make the answers to our queries wrong, it just hurts sometimes to find out you don't know as much as you thought. Drop the ego and listen to what those who have years of experience are trying to tell you.

I didn't see anyone saying home built was impossible or wouldn't work. Just stating the facts about reliability, cost and certifications. It's like going on a car forum and wanting everyone to tell you that the car you like and plan to buy is the best in the world, then hearing from those who have owned and worked on them for a long time that they have problems.

Perhaps I am a masochist, but I have come to appreciate the 2x4's applied to my head by more knowledgeable people when I am wrong. Saves me a lot of time and money.

Carry on with your bashing now.

[Sunking]

Solaron if these so called 75 watt panels have 36 cells in series should produce a Vmp of 18 volts and Imp of 4.5 amps. If all you get is less than .5 amps, you have a major malfunction and defect. No question about it.