Noob! Noob! Noob! - regarding the Grail - Where's the best deal on Cells please?

[rhawkman]

I so enjoyed reading this thread that I had to pipe up, too.

I came here looking to learn and get advice. I got it. I didn't like a lot of it, especially at first. Why? Because the people who know a ****load more than me were very honest and like virtually everyone on earth, if we want something to be, we don't like to hear anything that goes against it. That does not make the answers to our queries wrong, it just hurts sometimes to find out you don't know as much as you thought. Drop the ego and listen to what those who have years of experience are trying to tell you.

I didn't see anyone saying home built was impossible or wouldn't work. Just stating the facts about reliability, cost and certifications. It's like going on a car forum and wanting everyone to tell you that the car you like and plan to buy is the best in the world, then hearing from those who have owned and worked on them for a long time that they have problems.

Perhaps I am a masochist, but I have come to appreciate the 2x4's applied to my head by more knowledgeable people when I am wrong. Saves me a lot of time and money.

Carry on with your bashing now.

[SunEagle]

[QUOTE=Solaron;69787]FloridaSun
Well, at solar noon, i get a measly .350 maybe .400 amps from each panel and there are three panels paralleled together pumpin out maybe an amp. According to my math i should see more amps than that but somehow i never get it? I live in the woods so direct sunlight is really only available at solar noon for me as i am surrounded by trees. I'm not really building panels to go off-grid but rather my interest ly in portable electric generators. I built a generator that i actually have had to use a couple times during a power outage. Runs tv. lights, fans, pretty much anything i need it to. I have mini fridge that it ran for nearly 12 hours once. These types of applications are my real passion! Yes, it's not cost effective at all but it's fun and addicting for me.



Have you tried testing the panels under a very bright light to see what they put out. My 80 watt panels will produce about 4 amps at 17v under morning sunlight. It goes up to 4.55amps at noon. You should be getting something in the 3 - 4 amp range at noon.

When you do your test compare each panel under the same test light to see if there are any differences in output. If only one panel has the issue it could be a wiring issue where most of the cells are not connected to the output wires. If the panels are all the same then it may be an issue with your diodes or worse your cells are not producing.

[Solaron]

FloridaSun

You know, i've wondered the same thing myself for the longest time. I too thought i might be reading the meter wrong but i'm just not sure anymore. Each cell individually produces about .350-.400 amps i've found unless I'm reading that wrong as well? Each of the 40 cells are soldered in a series so the amps should stay the same and voltage increased. Maybe you can help me figure this out?

I guess i should mention that there are also two Harbor Freight 45 Watt panel kits attached to the generator, and an additional homeade one attached. Since they are all different voltages and current, i have them attached with different charge controllers. i'd say there's roughly 3-4 amps charging this battery bank. the battery bank only consists of three 160 RC deep cycle batteries. Not sure the exact amp hours but somewhere between 200-240 ah. If i drain them down to 50 percent it usually takes roughly a week sometimes less to fully recharge them.

yikes!! less than half an amp from a DIY 75w panel? You sure you're reading that right? Should be at least ten times that much.
I find your statement of, "Big panels are 20v. They have been charging my battery bank for over a year now w no issues." a very misleading one.... unless your battery bank is contained in a flashlight.

[Sunking]

Solaron if these so called 75 watt panels have 36 cells in series should produce a Vmp of 18 volts and Imp of 4.5 amps. If all you get is less than .5 amps, you have a major malfunction and defect. No question about it.

[Solaron]

Thanks for chiming in, you must like a good dispute as well as me

Either way, this whole disagreement doesn't have to do with me not knowing something or being wrong about anything, it only has to do with others egos and attitutude when responding to posts and being discourtious/disrespectful of others. Thanks for keeping the dispute going, thought we dropped it yesterday.

I so enjoyed reading this thread that I had to pipe up, too.

I came here looking to learn and get advice. I got it. I didn't like a lot of it, especially at first. Why? Because the people who know a ****load more than me were very honest and like virtually everyone on earth, if we want something to be, we don't like to hear anything that goes against it. That does not make the answers to our queries wrong, it just hurts sometimes to find out you don't know as much as you thought. Drop the ego and listen to what those who have years of experience are trying to tell you.

I didn't see anyone saying home built was impossible or wouldn't work. Just stating the facts about reliability, cost and certifications. It's like going on a car forum and wanting everyone to tell you that the car you like and plan to buy is the best in the world, then hearing from those who have owned and worked on them for a long time that they have problems.

Perhaps I am a masochist, but I have come to appreciate the 2x4's applied to my head by more knowledgeable people when I am wrong. Saves me a lot of time and money.

Carry on with your bashing now.

[SunEagle]

FloridaSun

You know, i've wondered the same thing myself for the longest time. I too thought i might be reading the meter wrong but i'm just not sure anymore. Each cell individually produces about .350-.400 amps i've found unless I'm reading that wrong as well? Each of the 40 cells are soldered in a series so the amps should stay the same and voltage increased. Maybe you can help me figure this out?

I guess i should mention that there are also two Harbor Freight 45 Watt panel kits attached to the generator, and an additional homeade one attached. Since they are all different voltages and current, i have them attached with different charge controllers. i'd say there's roughly 3-4 amps charging this battery bank. the battery bank only consists of three 160 RC deep cycle batteries. Not sure the exact amp hours but somewhere between 200-240 ah. If i drain them down to 50 percent it usually takes roughly a week sometimes less to fully recharge them.

That amperage per cell is way too low. A really good Grade A 6 x 6 cell will produce about 0.5vdc at about 8 amps or 4 watts each. Wire up about 36 of these cells and you get about 18vdc at 8 amps for a total of 144 watts. Most other cells produce less amperage but still about 0.5vdc.

If you can check a single cell and see what voltage it puts out.

[Solaron]

I'm gonna do some looking into this tonight. If i am reading the meter wrong (hopefully) i am then I should be good because instead of .400 amps, maybe it's 4 amps, If not, i wonder what i messed up on? I gotta be reading the meter wrong! I hate to sound ignorant here but don't know what else to say.

That amperage per cell is way too low. A really good Grade A 6 x 6 cell will produce about 0.5vdc at about 8 amps or 4 watts each. Wire up about 36 of these cells and you get about 18vdc at 8 amps for a total of 144 watts. Most other cells produce less amperage but still about 0.5vdc.

If you can check a single cell and see what voltage it puts out.

[SunEagle]

I'm gonna do some looking into this tonight. If i am reading the meter wrong (hopefully) i am then I should be good because instead of .400 amps, maybe it's 4 amps, If not, i wonder what i messed up on? I gotta be reading the meter wrong! I hate to sound ignorant here but don't know what else to say.

I hope you are reading the meter incorrectly also. The best way to tell where the problem is will be to break down your "system" and check each component or panel individually. If you have hooked up a number of different "systems" (DIY, Harbor Freight, etc) together there may be an issue with one system fighting the other. Electricity is very simple to understand if you realize it will always take the path of least resistance even if it is flowing "upstream" from one system to another.

[FloridaSun]

I'm gonna do some looking into this tonight. If i am reading the meter wrong (hopefully) i am then I should be good because instead of .400 amps, maybe it's 4 amps, If not, i wonder what i messed up on? I gotta be reading the meter wrong! I hate to sound ignorant here but don't know what else to say.

Sounding ignorant can be only a temporary issue. The reals fools are one's like the OP in this thread who has run off after embarrassing his self.
You might consider consolidating your most useful panels into one mppt charge controller. Good way to squeeze out a few extra amps daily from your panels and use your generator less. I'm among trees too but still get good sun from 10am to 4pm, the best time. Checked my system this morning and getting one amp from a 145w panel (panels cost 79 cents a watt) in the 9am full shade. With a cheapo mppt you could be getting that+ with 3x75w panels working correctly.

[SunEagle]

Sounding ignorant can be only a temporary issue. The reals fools are one's like the OP in this thread who has run off after embarrassing his self.
You might consider consolidating your most useful panels into one mppt charge controller. Good way to squeeze out a few extra amps daily from your panels and use your generator less. I'm among trees too but still get good sun from 10am to 4pm, the best time. Checked my system this morning and getting one amp from a 145w panel (panels cost 79 cents a watt) in the 9am full shade. With a cheapo mppt you could be getting that+ with 3x75w panels working correctly.

What neck of the woods in FL do you hale from? I live in the Clearwater area but plan on using my small (500watt) PV system on my property up in North Florida when I camp.

I would rather get a grid tie connection but before I can get Utility power I will have to supply a house plan, put in a well, septic tank system, upgrade the road entrance culvert, pay an impact fee ($3500) and do some clearing. Based on today's prices that will easily exceed $10,000 just to spend a few weekends a year. Oh, also once I do all this then my taxes go up because it is now "improved" property instead of 15 acres of trees and open space. So it is an off grid DIY PV solar generation system for me for now.

[green]

I gotta be reading the meter wrong! I hate to sound ignorant here but don't know what else to say.

Your multi-meter is your best friend and most important tool in DIY electronics. Not to sound mean but you need to learn how to use yours correctly and safely. Without it you have no idea what is going on because you have no other way to measure (besides other forms of metering).

Don't feel bad though, I've been building, inventing and experimenting for over 30 years and I continue to learn new things every day. As a matter of coincidence with this topic I just bought a new multi-meter with all the bells and whistles and I am having to learn how to use it even though I already know the basics.

[FloridaSun]

What neck of the woods in FL do you hale from? I live in the Clearwater area but plan on using my small (500watt) PV system on my property up in North Florida when I camp.

I would rather get a grid tie connection but before I can get Utility power I will have to supply a house plan, put in a well, septic tank system, upgrade the road entrance culvert, pay an impact fee ($3500) and do some clearing. Based on today's prices that will easily exceed $10,000 just to spend a few weekends a year. Oh, also once I do all this then my taxes go up because it is now "improved" property instead of 15 acres of trees and open space. So it is an off grid DIY PV solar generation system for me for now.

I'm in central FL, out hwy 60 east of Lake Wales. Granpa bought this lakeside acre in 1958 when he retired from the dept of state in Wash, DC, two houses here so not much needs added, nothing but maintenance forever to do here now. Best sun is way in back on a workshop by the woods and huge pasture adjoining but have some 60 foot pines shading the east side there. Perfect place for grid tie panels at front house but really no need as my electric bill is less that $50 a month now (maybe half that going to a 1hp well pump for irrigation of gardens). I just play with a small system now, have a bit of 'free' lol elect. during hurricane times.
What's the zoning on your 15 acres? Can't get a power pole in for a camp trailer? I found living off grid to suit me well when I did it in N Calif. Did involve much more exercise cutting wood and hauling water but really is a healthier way to live..,. and so peaceful without that 60hz hum around. For a few weekends a year I wouldn't even bother with the grid. You'll have more fun playing with a solar system.

[SunEagle]

I'm in central FL, out hwy 60 east of Lake Wales. Granpa bought this lakeside acre in 1958 when he retired from the dept of state in Wash, DC, two houses here so not much needs added, nothing but maintenance forever to do here now. Best sun is way in back on a workshop by the woods and huge pasture adjoining but have some 60 foot pines shading the east side there. Perfect place for grid tie panels at front house but really no need as my electric bill is less that $50 a month now (maybe half that going to a 1hp well pump for irrigation of gardens). I just play with a small system now, have a bit of 'free' lol elect. during hurricane times.
What's the zoning on your 15 acres? Can't get a power pole in for a camp trailer? I found living off grid to suit me well when I did it in N Calif. Did involve much more exercise cutting wood and hauling water but really is a healthier way to live..,. and so peaceful without that 60hz hum around. For a few weekends a year I wouldn't even bother with the grid. You'll have more fun playing with a solar system.

Sounds like a real nice place. Enjoy.

The zoning is for homes only. Can't get a power pole unless I jump through all of the flaming hoops no matter what I build up there. Was going to build a retirement home with a 5kw grid tie system. I now own an RV so not sure now if I will just put up a smaller house with an area to store the RV.

Until then I would rather use my small off grid system to charge my RV coach batteries instead of the on board 5500w gen set. Of course once it gets hot I will need to run the gen set for AC because the off grid system is too small. I don't want to expand the small system (made up of 80 and 90 watt panels) because the battery cost will eat me alive. Still like to go the DIY route but not with building panels.

I guess that is enough off topic discussion for now.

[FloridaSun]

Sounds like a real nice place. Enjoy.

The zoning is for homes only. Can't get a power pole unless I jump through all of the flaming hoops no matter what I build up there. Was going to build a retirement home with a 5kw grid tie system. I now own an RV so not sure now if I will just put up a smaller house with an area to store the RV.

Until then I would rather use my small off grid system to charge my RV coach batteries instead of the on board 5500w gen set. Of course once it gets hot I will need to run the gen set for AC because the off grid system is too small. I don't want to expand the small system (made up of 80 and 90 watt panels) because the battery cost will eat me alive. Still like to go the DIY route but not with building panels.

I guess that is enough off topic discussion for now.

off topic? it's all about solar.... all these hijacked threads make this forum interesting reading
yes, sounds the way to go... build the smallest allowable house with detached pole barn for your RV. Locate/design the pole barn so you can use the roof for solar panels. Once you get that RV in the shade your AC needs may go way down.

[SunEagle]

off topic? it's all about solar.... all these hijacked threads make this forum interesting reading
yes, sounds the way to go... build the smallest allowable house with detached pole barn for your RV. Locate/design the pole barn so you can use the roof for solar panels. Once you get that RV in the shade your AC needs may go way down.

That's my DIY plan. RV Shed roof will be at the correct angle and have a real good Southern exposure for the PV array. Hopefully there will still be good panels available in a few years when I now plan to build.