Noob! Noob! Noob! - regarding the Grail - Where's the best deal on Cells please?

[FunGas]

I built my own 150W 1m square panel using 36 6x6" 4.25W cells from a Chinese account on ebay.
Before soldering, I tested all the cells with (several) halogen light sources. They all exeeded their theoretical quoted rating.

The time and effort (and money) involved in building a panel does not make economic sense - it's cheaper to buy one of the same rating ready made. Maybe 3 times cheaper as in my case.
However, the pleasure attained "building your own" cannot be summed up.
Your application is what's really important, if you intend to power more than a couple hundred Watts, go and buy a ready made panel, it's not worth the time otherwise.

All the components soon add up the total value, the glass for example, in my case (cost 80 Euros), I could only get 13mm in the correct transparency, so my panel is "rather" heavy - that's no problem because I used 3mm aluminium for a frame, but not everyone want to be able to sledge down a mountain on their panel.

Go ahead and build one, it's great fun! Once you get halfway through soldering, you'll probably say to yourself "wish I'd just bought the damn thing".

[Caliban]

Please delete this thread.

The problem with a lot of these free discussion forums is that they tend to be dominated by cliques. I don't suppose it makes a damn bit of difference to a "Robust" moderator or his buddy that their huge footprints contribute nothing to the topic at hand and are in fact counterproductive. You need me to contribute and discuss. I don't need you for censure or criticism.

I will post elsewhere. In some forum that is, in fact, a forum.

[FloridaSun]

Guess you're an idiot too. You all go worship Russ and leave the rest of us alone to have civilized discussions. Don't need your's or his disrespectful posts to our questions.

Respect is earned.
No need for name calling.
I would be interested to know the total cost of your DIY Panels. Watts/Volts you get for cost of cells, glass, aluminum frame, backing, junction box, etc. No need to include your assembly time, shipping costs for all your parts or the months of use you get out of them.

[Sunking]

Let the fools build their own panels and let them learn the hard way. No better teacher than loosing a bunch of money. Be the one to sell the fools what they want and profit off it.

[FloridaSun]

Let the fools build their own panels and let them learn the hard way. No better teacher than loosing a bunch of money. Be the one to sell the fools what they want and profit off it.

Yes, I just punched in "DIY solar panel scam" in google and see this has been going on for years.

[Sunking]

Yes, I just punched in "DIY solar panel scam" in google and see this has been going on for years.

Of course and will continue. Fools and their Money will soon be parted.

[Solaron]

No need for name calling or other forms of disrespect, i agree, but had to make the point. Courtesy should be automatic! My projects aren't about the money but rather the gratitude of doing something that many don't understand. This is a DIY forum and comments are going to be geared around that but this seems to be the most anti-diy forum in existence.
Roughly $80-$100 for my 75 watt panels. Much cheaper for my 10 watt and under panels. Big panels are 20v. They have been charging my battery bank for over a year now w no issues.


OTE=FloridaSun;69703]Respect is earned.
No need for name calling.
I would be interested to know the total cost of your DIY Panels. Watts/Volts you get for cost of cells, glass, aluminum frame, backing, junction box, etc. No need to include your assembly time, shipping costs for all your parts or the months of use you get out of them.[/QUOTE]

[FloridaSun]

[QUOTE=Solaron;69722]No need for name calling or other forms of disrespect, i agree, but had to make the point. Courtesy should be automatic! My projects aren't about the money but rather the gratitude of doing something that many don't understand. This is a DIY forum and comments are going to be geared around that but this seems to be the most anti-diy forum in existence.
Roughly $80-$100 for my 75 watt panels. Much cheaper for my 10 watt and under panels. Big panels are 20v. They have been charging my battery bank for over a year now w no issues.

Not necessarily anti DIY here but geared more toward safety and economic use of time and money.
So you have spent more $ @ watt on your panels over factory made ones and many hours of gathering materials and tinkering to prove you could get something that worked? And that gives you, "gratitude of doing something that many don't understand." I see where you're coming from but most people seem to be more interested in getting the most bang for their buck, thinking DIY made panels are better and cheaper than factory made.... when realistically they're way off base.
Have you tested them? How's your efficiency? How many amps will your 75w panel put out at solar noon?

[Naptown]

Is everyone done here?
Here is the bottom line for all.
Not my rules but according to the NEC and virtually all insurance companies.

All solar equipment must be tested and listed by a nationally recognized testing lab. (This is repeated in the Nec (national electrical code) so many times it is ridiculous.

99 44/100% of the civilized world has building codes and electrical codes such as the NEC.

Yes it is possible to build your own panels and use plug in inverters that are readily available on Ebay etc just because they are sold doesn't mean they are legal to use. These are not controlled substances such as pot that the Feds or state governments are going to crack down on.
Just as an example Where I live it illegal without a license to install or alter any plumbing electrical or mechanical system in my home that I own. Yet I can go into a Home Depot, Lowes etc and purchase all the materials I wish to purchase and get generally lousy and inaccurate installation information from the sales people on the floor. They are in the business of selling supplies and the end use is on no concern the them. If you burn your house down it is no concern whatsoever to them, they simply sold you parts.
Same thing with solar. Lots of parts sellers with no responsibility for the end product. Nor will they tell you that you cannot tie to the grid or that your insurance may be cancelled or a claim denied.
So for all you DIY panel builders I challenge you with this.
Ask your local Building department if you can use non Ul or equal listed products. Ask the local utility if they will approve a DIY panel or inverter build. and finally disclose to your insurance company that you are building solar panels to mount on your house that are not UL or equal listed and ask for proof of coverage if this happens. No dancing around the subject ask as I stated.
Good luck and I hope nothing bad happens.

[russ]

I'm not even going to bother answering this post directly. Other than to point out that DIY is indeed being blocked bog time by inspectors in order apparently to keep commercial installers in golf money. If you aren't going to contribute to this forum please post elsewhere.

That is silly - inspections are there to try to insure the integrity of the system - one more smart ass comment and you can go play with your "chili pepper".

[russ]

Russ,

So why don't you leave the DIY section to those of us that appreciate it and stay out of everyones conversation. I sense you have an egotistic personality and think you know everything and perhaps you know alot, it's just how you package and send it to us. Learn some tact and then come back and talk with us.

Hi fellow - keep your fingers silent or you will be history.

[SunEagle]

Hi fellow - keep your fingers silent or you will be history.

Russ

I don't think he can complain because I felt your statement was very tactful.

[Solaron]

FloridaSun
Well, at solar noon, i get a measly .350 maybe .400 amps from each panel and there are three panels paralleled together pumpin out maybe an amp. According to my math i should see more amps than that but somehow i never get it? I live in the woods so direct sunlight is really only available at solar noon for me as i am surrounded by trees. I'm not really building panels to go off-grid but rather my interest ly in portable electric generators. I built a generator that i actually have had to use a couple times during a power outage. Runs tv. lights, fans, pretty much anything i need it to. I have mini fridge that it ran for nearly 12 hours once. These types of applications are my real passion! Yes, it's not cost effective at all but it's fun and addicting for me.



[QUOTE=FloridaSun;69725]

No need for name calling or other forms of disrespect, i agree, but had to make the point. Courtesy should be automatic! My projects aren't about the money but rather the gratitude of doing something that many don't understand. This is a DIY forum and comments are going to be geared around that but this seems to be the most anti-diy forum in existence.
Roughly $80-$100 for my 75 watt panels. Much cheaper for my 10 watt and under panels. Big panels are 20v. They have been charging my battery bank for over a year now w no issues.

Not necessarily anti DIY here but geared more toward safety and economic use of time and money.
So you have spent more $ @ watt on your panels over factory made ones and many hours of gathering materials and tinkering to prove you could get something that worked? And that gives you, "gratitude of doing something that many don't understand." I see where you're coming from but most people seem to be more interested in getting the most bang for their buck, thinking DIY made panels are better and cheaper than factory made.... when realistically they're way off base.
Have you tested them? How's your efficiency? How many amps will your 75w panel put out at solar noon?

[Solaron]

Not worried Russ!

Hi fellow - keep your fingers silent or you will be history.

[FloridaSun]

FloridaSun
Well, at solar noon, i get a measly .350 maybe .400 amps from each panel and there are three panels paralleled together pumpin out maybe an amp. According to my math i should see more amps than that but somehow i never get it? I live in the woods so direct sunlight is really only available at solar noon for me as i am surrounded by trees. I'm not really building panels to go off-grid but rather my interest ly in portable electric generators. I built a generator that i actually have had to use a couple times during a power outage. Runs tv. lights, fans, pretty much anything i need it to. I have mini fridge that it ran for nearly 12 hours once. These types of applications are my real passion! Yes, it's not cost effective at all but it's fun and addicting for me.

yikes!! less than half an amp from a DIY 75w panel? You sure you're reading that right? Should be at least ten times that much.
I find your statement of, "Big panels are 20v. They have been charging my battery bank for over a year now w no issues." a very misleading one.... unless your battery bank is contained in a flashlight.