Noob! Noob! Noob! - regarding the Grail - Where's the best deal on Cells please?

[Solaron]

FloridaSun

You know, i've wondered the same thing myself for the longest time. I too thought i might be reading the meter wrong but i'm just not sure anymore. Each cell individually produces about .350-.400 amps i've found unless I'm reading that wrong as well? Each of the 40 cells are soldered in a series so the amps should stay the same and voltage increased. Maybe you can help me figure this out?

I guess i should mention that there are also two Harbor Freight 45 Watt panel kits attached to the generator, and an additional homeade one attached. Since they are all different voltages and current, i have them attached with different charge controllers. i'd say there's roughly 3-4 amps charging this battery bank. the battery bank only consists of three 160 RC deep cycle batteries. Not sure the exact amp hours but somewhere between 200-240 ah. If i drain them down to 50 percent it usually takes roughly a week sometimes less to fully recharge them.

yikes!! less than half an amp from a DIY 75w panel? You sure you're reading that right? Should be at least ten times that much.
I find your statement of, "Big panels are 20v. They have been charging my battery bank for over a year now w no issues." a very misleading one.... unless your battery bank is contained in a flashlight.

[SunEagle]

[QUOTE=Solaron;69787]FloridaSun
Well, at solar noon, i get a measly .350 maybe .400 amps from each panel and there are three panels paralleled together pumpin out maybe an amp. According to my math i should see more amps than that but somehow i never get it? I live in the woods so direct sunlight is really only available at solar noon for me as i am surrounded by trees. I'm not really building panels to go off-grid but rather my interest ly in portable electric generators. I built a generator that i actually have had to use a couple times during a power outage. Runs tv. lights, fans, pretty much anything i need it to. I have mini fridge that it ran for nearly 12 hours once. These types of applications are my real passion! Yes, it's not cost effective at all but it's fun and addicting for me.



Have you tried testing the panels under a very bright light to see what they put out. My 80 watt panels will produce about 4 amps at 17v under morning sunlight. It goes up to 4.55amps at noon. You should be getting something in the 3 - 4 amp range at noon.

When you do your test compare each panel under the same test light to see if there are any differences in output. If only one panel has the issue it could be a wiring issue where most of the cells are not connected to the output wires. If the panels are all the same then it may be an issue with your diodes or worse your cells are not producing.

[rhawkman]

I so enjoyed reading this thread that I had to pipe up, too.

I came here looking to learn and get advice. I got it. I didn't like a lot of it, especially at first. Why? Because the people who know a ****load more than me were very honest and like virtually everyone on earth, if we want something to be, we don't like to hear anything that goes against it. That does not make the answers to our queries wrong, it just hurts sometimes to find out you don't know as much as you thought. Drop the ego and listen to what those who have years of experience are trying to tell you.

I didn't see anyone saying home built was impossible or wouldn't work. Just stating the facts about reliability, cost and certifications. It's like going on a car forum and wanting everyone to tell you that the car you like and plan to buy is the best in the world, then hearing from those who have owned and worked on them for a long time that they have problems.

Perhaps I am a masochist, but I have come to appreciate the 2x4's applied to my head by more knowledgeable people when I am wrong. Saves me a lot of time and money.

Carry on with your bashing now.

[FloridaSun]

FloridaSun
Well, at solar noon, i get a measly .350 maybe .400 amps from each panel and there are three panels paralleled together pumpin out maybe an amp. According to my math i should see more amps than that but somehow i never get it? I live in the woods so direct sunlight is really only available at solar noon for me as i am surrounded by trees. I'm not really building panels to go off-grid but rather my interest ly in portable electric generators. I built a generator that i actually have had to use a couple times during a power outage. Runs tv. lights, fans, pretty much anything i need it to. I have mini fridge that it ran for nearly 12 hours once. These types of applications are my real passion! Yes, it's not cost effective at all but it's fun and addicting for me.

yikes!! less than half an amp from a DIY 75w panel? You sure you're reading that right? Should be at least ten times that much.
I find your statement of, "Big panels are 20v. They have been charging my battery bank for over a year now w no issues." a very misleading one.... unless your battery bank is contained in a flashlight.

[Solaron]

Not worried Russ!

Hi fellow - keep your fingers silent or you will be history.

[Solaron]

FloridaSun
Well, at solar noon, i get a measly .350 maybe .400 amps from each panel and there are three panels paralleled together pumpin out maybe an amp. According to my math i should see more amps than that but somehow i never get it? I live in the woods so direct sunlight is really only available at solar noon for me as i am surrounded by trees. I'm not really building panels to go off-grid but rather my interest ly in portable electric generators. I built a generator that i actually have had to use a couple times during a power outage. Runs tv. lights, fans, pretty much anything i need it to. I have mini fridge that it ran for nearly 12 hours once. These types of applications are my real passion! Yes, it's not cost effective at all but it's fun and addicting for me.



[QUOTE=FloridaSun;69725]

No need for name calling or other forms of disrespect, i agree, but had to make the point. Courtesy should be automatic! My projects aren't about the money but rather the gratitude of doing something that many don't understand. This is a DIY forum and comments are going to be geared around that but this seems to be the most anti-diy forum in existence.
Roughly $80-$100 for my 75 watt panels. Much cheaper for my 10 watt and under panels. Big panels are 20v. They have been charging my battery bank for over a year now w no issues.

Not necessarily anti DIY here but geared more toward safety and economic use of time and money.
So you have spent more $ @ watt on your panels over factory made ones and many hours of gathering materials and tinkering to prove you could get something that worked? And that gives you, "gratitude of doing something that many don't understand." I see where you're coming from but most people seem to be more interested in getting the most bang for their buck, thinking DIY made panels are better and cheaper than factory made.... when realistically they're way off base.
Have you tested them? How's your efficiency? How many amps will your 75w panel put out at solar noon?

[SunEagle]

Hi fellow - keep your fingers silent or you will be history.

Russ

I don't think he can complain because I felt your statement was very tactful.

[russ]

Russ,

So why don't you leave the DIY section to those of us that appreciate it and stay out of everyones conversation. I sense you have an egotistic personality and think you know everything and perhaps you know alot, it's just how you package and send it to us. Learn some tact and then come back and talk with us.

Hi fellow - keep your fingers silent or you will be history.

[russ]

I'm not even going to bother answering this post directly. Other than to point out that DIY is indeed being blocked bog time by inspectors in order apparently to keep commercial installers in golf money. If you aren't going to contribute to this forum please post elsewhere.

That is silly - inspections are there to try to insure the integrity of the system - one more smart ass comment and you can go play with your "chili pepper".

[Naptown]

Is everyone done here?
Here is the bottom line for all.
Not my rules but according to the NEC and virtually all insurance companies.

All solar equipment must be tested and listed by a nationally recognized testing lab. (This is repeated in the Nec (national electrical code) so many times it is ridiculous.

99 44/100% of the civilized world has building codes and electrical codes such as the NEC.

Yes it is possible to build your own panels and use plug in inverters that are readily available on Ebay etc just because they are sold doesn't mean they are legal to use. These are not controlled substances such as pot that the Feds or state governments are going to crack down on.
Just as an example Where I live it illegal without a license to install or alter any plumbing electrical or mechanical system in my home that I own. Yet I can go into a Home Depot, Lowes etc and purchase all the materials I wish to purchase and get generally lousy and inaccurate installation information from the sales people on the floor. They are in the business of selling supplies and the end use is on no concern the them. If you burn your house down it is no concern whatsoever to them, they simply sold you parts.
Same thing with solar. Lots of parts sellers with no responsibility for the end product. Nor will they tell you that you cannot tie to the grid or that your insurance may be cancelled or a claim denied.
So for all you DIY panel builders I challenge you with this.
Ask your local Building department if you can use non Ul or equal listed products. Ask the local utility if they will approve a DIY panel or inverter build. and finally disclose to your insurance company that you are building solar panels to mount on your house that are not UL or equal listed and ask for proof of coverage if this happens. No dancing around the subject ask as I stated.
Good luck and I hope nothing bad happens.

[FloridaSun]

[QUOTE=Solaron;69722]No need for name calling or other forms of disrespect, i agree, but had to make the point. Courtesy should be automatic! My projects aren't about the money but rather the gratitude of doing something that many don't understand. This is a DIY forum and comments are going to be geared around that but this seems to be the most anti-diy forum in existence.
Roughly $80-$100 for my 75 watt panels. Much cheaper for my 10 watt and under panels. Big panels are 20v. They have been charging my battery bank for over a year now w no issues.

Not necessarily anti DIY here but geared more toward safety and economic use of time and money.
So you have spent more $ @ watt on your panels over factory made ones and many hours of gathering materials and tinkering to prove you could get something that worked? And that gives you, "gratitude of doing something that many don't understand." I see where you're coming from but most people seem to be more interested in getting the most bang for their buck, thinking DIY made panels are better and cheaper than factory made.... when realistically they're way off base.
Have you tested them? How's your efficiency? How many amps will your 75w panel put out at solar noon?

[Solaron]

No need for name calling or other forms of disrespect, i agree, but had to make the point. Courtesy should be automatic! My projects aren't about the money but rather the gratitude of doing something that many don't understand. This is a DIY forum and comments are going to be geared around that but this seems to be the most anti-diy forum in existence.
Roughly $80-$100 for my 75 watt panels. Much cheaper for my 10 watt and under panels. Big panels are 20v. They have been charging my battery bank for over a year now w no issues.


OTE=FloridaSun;69703]Respect is earned.
No need for name calling.
I would be interested to know the total cost of your DIY Panels. Watts/Volts you get for cost of cells, glass, aluminum frame, backing, junction box, etc. No need to include your assembly time, shipping costs for all your parts or the months of use you get out of them.[/QUOTE]

[Sunking]

Yes, I just punched in "DIY solar panel scam" in google and see this has been going on for years.

Of course and will continue. Fools and their Money will soon be parted.

[FloridaSun]

Let the fools build their own panels and let them learn the hard way. No better teacher than loosing a bunch of money. Be the one to sell the fools what they want and profit off it.

Yes, I just punched in "DIY solar panel scam" in google and see this has been going on for years.

[Sunking]

Let the fools build their own panels and let them learn the hard way. No better teacher than loosing a bunch of money. Be the one to sell the fools what they want and profit off it.