Obama Administration Takes Action on Climate Change--Big Time

[ChrisOlson]

It took me awhile to find this article too so the AGW cheerleaders can see that some people that were in this business from the word "go" have thrown in the towel on it. This happens to include the co-founder of Greenpeace, Pat Moore:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...fic-proof-hum/

[russ]

Hi Chris - I have yet to read the entire article - time to go for my ride. I like to get that done before too many of the summer vacationer loonies hit the road - plus it is still cool.

One part that quickly jumps out - Patrick Moore, a Canadian ecologist who was a member of Greenpeacefrom 1971-86, told members of the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee environmental groups like Greenpeace use faulty computer models and scare tactics in further promoting a political agenda

[ChrisOlson]

One part that quickly jumps out - Patrick Moore, a Canadian ecologist who was a member of Greenpeacefrom 1971-86, told members of the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee environmental groups like Greenpeace use faulty computer models and scare tactics in further promoting a political agenda

Pat Moore's testimony before the Senate panel is a matter of public record. He is a well respected scientist (except by the current AGW hawks).

The Don't Make a Wave Committee was formed in January 1970 by Dorothy and Irving Stowe, Ben Metcalfe, Marie and Jim Bohlen, Paul Cote, and Bob Hunter and incorporated in October 1970. It was formed to protest nuclear weapons testing in the Aleutians. Moore joined the committee in 1971 and, as Greenpeace co-founder Bob Hunter wrote, “Moore was quickly accepted into the inner circle on the basis of his scientific background, his reputation, and his ability to inject practical, no-nonsense insights into the discussions." And Greenpeace was formed.

He was a member of the Greenpeace organization until 1986 and president of it from 1977 to 1986. He left in 1986 when he said the motivations of the organization became too far to the political left and started disagreeing with his scientific experience and background. His complete testimony before the Senate panel is in the Congressional Record.

The problem today is that we have an Administration in place intent on pushing the taxing, carbon trading and carbon finance schemes of the political climate change agenda. Basically, we don't have to put up with the SOB much longer because his term runs out, and it's too late to impeach him and get anything done that way. So we'll just have to put up with the nonsense until we can get somebody with common sense at the helm.

[Ian S]

It took me awhile to find this article too so the AGW cheerleaders can see that some people that were in this business from the word "go" have thrown in the towel on it. This happens to include the co-founder of Greenpeace, Pat Moore

Not the co-founder of Greenpeace at all! He's just another opportunistic grifter but it's apparently quite lucrative - lots of funding from from mining, logging, chemicals, and other such industrial paragons of the environmental movement. See here for details. They even have documented proof that he wasn't involved with Greenpeace at all until a year after it had actually started. LOL.

[Ian S]

Pat Moore's testimony before the Senate panel is a matter of public record. He is a well respected scientist (except by the current AGW hawks).

The Don't Make a Wave Committee was formed in January 1970 by Dorothy and Irving Stowe, Ben Metcalfe, Marie and Jim Bohlen, Paul Cote, and Bob Hunter and incorporated in October 1970. It was formed to protest nuclear weapons testing in the Aleutians. Moore joined the committee in 1971 and, as Greenpeace co-founder Bob Hunter wrote, “Moore was quickly accepted into the inner circle on the basis of his scientific background, his reputation, and his ability to inject practical, no-nonsense insights into the discussions." And Greenpeace was formed.

He was a member of the Greenpeace organization until 1986 and president of it from 1977 to 1986. He left in 1986 when he said the motivations of the organization became too far to the political left and started disagreeing with his scientific experience and background. His complete testimony before the Senate panel is in the Congressional Record.

The problem today is that we have an Administration in place intent on pushing the taxing, carbon trading and carbon finance schemes of the political climate change agenda. Basically, we don't have to put up with the SOB much longer because his term runs out, and it's too late to impeach him and get anything done that way. So we'll just have to put up with the nonsense until we can get somebody with common sense at the helm.

LOL! He came in a year after it was founded. He was NOT a co-founder. And regardless of his involvement with Greenpeace, it's obvious he has found a more lucrative livelihood. Gee, I guess he didn't get the message that all those AGW alarmists make all the big money.

[billvon]

n what history? The dinosaurs did not leave any records from their thermometer readings to compare to. Neither did early man up until maybe 100-200 years ago. The fact is, the human race has not been on the planet long enough to even know for sure. And science is not accurate enough to go back, say 100,000 years ago and say a temperature increase happened in "x" amount of time.

Humans do not know how it all works. It is all hypothesis with no hard data to prove anything. Unless you can produce global thermometer readings from more than 150 years ago, you can not detect changes of only 1.53°F (0.85°C) from 100,000 years ago, like there has been from 1880 to 2012. And trying to convince anybody that you can, causes you to lose all your credibility in the debate.

Fair enough. Bill, what do you say to this?

The science of proxy measurements is well established. We do not tell how old a fossil is by looking at the pictures we took of it when it was living - we use radioisotope measurements to determine how long ago it lived. We do not determine sea level from 20,000 years ago by looking in the newspaper archives - we date coral and determine how deep it was when it was living. We do not "produce global thermometer readings" to tell how warm it was 2000 years ago - we look at the thickness of the ice laid down in the Antarctic, or the thickness of growth rings on trees, or the oxygen isotope ratios in sediments in lakes.

[billvon]

You're saying mankind now has control over this? You have gone over the edge, man.

Facts:

1) We have increased the CO2 content of the atmosphere by ~50%
2) Increasing CO2 concentration traps more heat
3) Temperatures have been rising, on average, over the past 150 years or so as CO2 concentrations have increased.

Those are the facts. Deal with them. (Or just watch FOX News, I guess.)

[billvon]

The land we all live on was described by Sunking in a nutshell pretty well - like ice cubes floating in a glass of water. You can pour water into the glass from a pitcher and pulse phase causes temporary flooding of the ice cube's shorelines. But it rebounds very fast - as soon as the pulse phase is finished.

Most of the sea level change we predict is NOT caused by "pouring water into the glass from a pitcher." It is because warm water expands. And thus it weighs exactly the same as the cold water - it just takes up more volume. So for most of the sea level change we are talking about, your explanation has zero bearing.

This is why deniers are often not taken seriously - they don't even know the basic physics behind what they are denying.

[inetdog]

Also, some folks correctly note that ice has a greater volume than water and so floating ice displaces its own weight in water, not its volume in water. Melting floating water ice will not change the water level more than a tiny amount related to fresh versus salt water. So the melting of the arctic ice cap will have a very strong effect on evaporation and heat exchange (and polar bear habitat) but will not change sea level much.
But a very large part of the ice on our planet is currently resting on dry land (glaciers and the antarctic ice cap) which will most definitely cause a sea level change.

[russ]

Facts:

1) We have increased the CO2 content of the atmosphere by ~50%
2) Increasing CO2 concentration traps more heat
3) Temperatures have been rising, on average, over the past 150 years or so as CO2 concentrations have increased.

Those are the facts. Deal with them. (Or just watch FOX News, I guess.)

Your Fox news line sounds like kindergarten - more facts for you (real facts by the way just so you don't have to think too hard - they won't be in the little green book Al gave you):

1) Tuesday comes after Monday
2) Water is wet
3) Duck butts don't have rudders

Yep! Bill is now a reverend of the Holy Church of Climate Change - Everyone else is wrong except him and his little friends.

Your make believe science is full of holes - your only fact is that anyone not believing you is going to be cast into denieratory - forever.

[russ]

We do not tell how old a fossil is by looking at the pictures we took of it when it was living - we use radioisotope measurements to determine how long ago it lived. We do not determine sea level from 20,000 years ago by looking in the newspaper archives - we date coral and determine how deep it was when it was living. We do not "produce global thermometer readings" to tell how warm it was 2000 years ago - we look at the thickness of the ice laid down in the Antarctic, or the thickness of growth rings on trees, or the oxygen isotope ratios in sediments in lakes.

The imperials We? Bill, High Priest or not you don't do any of that - others do and you try yo be part of it by using we?

That is sick! It also misses the mark - you try to confuse real science with wishful thinking to reach your end point.

[ChrisOlson]

Not the co-founder of Greenpeace at all! He's just another opportunistic grifter but it's apparently quite lucrative - lots of funding from from mining, logging, chemicals, and other such industrial paragons of the environmental movement. See here for details. They even have documented proof that he wasn't involved with Greenpeace at all until a year after it had actually started. LOL.

Pure bullsh!t hawked the AGW cheerleaders, who tend to typically get their information from blogs instead of trusted sources. Maybe try reading the non-biased version:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Moore_%28environmentalist%29

[Ian S]

Pure bullsh!t hawked the AGW cheerleaders, who tend to typically get their information from blogs instead of trusted sources. Maybe try reading the non-biased version:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick...onmentalist%29

LOL! Did you read the wiki article? Nowhere does it state he's a founder of Greenpeace. Because he's not. Greenpeace was founded in 1970 but Moore didn't get involved until the following year. As for his working for the industries I mentioned, they brag about it on his consulting firm's website:

Led by three sustainability veterans, including chair emeritus Dr. Patrick Moore, GSL team members draw on the combined communications experience of a half century of domestic and international engagement on sustainability in mining, energy, forestry, aquaculture, biotechnology, pharmaceuticals and manufacturing in Canada, the United States, Indonesia, Australia and throughout South America and Europe.

[ChrisOlson]

LOL! Did you read the wiki article? Nowhere does it state he's a founder of Greenpeace. Because he's not. Greenpeace was founded in 1970 but Moore didn't get involved until the following year. As for his working for the industries I mentioned, they brag about it on his consulting firm's website:

Yes indeed, and I'm actually very familiar with his work over the years. He is considered by the original group that sailed Greenpeace to the Aleutians to be one of the founding fathers of the organization. Greenpeace, along with the rest of the AGW alarmists, turned into a leftwing political organization and today these people try to think up anything they can to discredit scientists who hold any viewpoint different from the alarmist one, instead of debating the facts. And this includes the original founders of Greenpeace. Dr. Moore is a sensible ecologist, and has been all his life, interested in furthering the well being of the human race thru sensible sustainable means. And this includes not following the leftwing alarmist attitudes towards fossil fuels.

There's the common sense, practical group. And the leftwing alarmist group in the climate change debate. Dr. Pat Moore happens to be in the former - and notice the Senate panel takes the time to listen to what he has to say, not the blogging alarmists on the internet. You don't get time in front of a Senate panel on the climate change issue unless you got the credentials to be there.

[Ian S]

You don't get time in front of a Senate panel on the climate change issue unless you got the credentials to be there.

He got in front of that sub committee because Sen. James Inhofe, the ranking member and noted AGW-denier wanted him to speak. He has no particular expertise in climate change science having never published anything in the peer-reviewed literature in that area.

Tell me again how he can be a founder of Greenpeace when that organization was already using "Greenpeace" on its letterhead when he first contacted them. Sure he joined the group early in its existence and rose to some prominence in it. But that's apparently not enough for a grifter like him. I've known people who fib, embelish and exaggerate like that; I wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them.