Obama Administration Takes Action on Climate Change--Big Time

[ChrisOlson]

Correlation is another good one - with enough effort most any event can be correlated with most anything.

You mean like the correlation of the NOAA claiming the warmest May on record (with most of the heat in the oceans because people are freezing their balls off on land) with the Whitehouse announcement that we're attacking climate change? That was pretty convenient.

[ChrisOlson]

So you don't believe in the consensus theory of gravity, then? After all, some people disagree.

All that means is that gravity is not understood so it is based on a theory - pretty much like climate change. That does not mean that neither one is not real - they are. But it does mean that you cannot state with any certainty that you know what causes it.

[billvon]

All that means is that gravity is not understood so it is based on a theory - pretty much like climate change. That does not mean that neither one is not real - they are. But it does mean that you cannot state with any certainty that you know what causes it.

Really? You don't think that the Earth's mass causes the gravity you feel? Interesting.

[russ]

Really? You don't think that the Earth's mass causes the gravity you feel? Interesting.

Bill - Are you trying for a promotion in the Holy Church of Climate Change - Al Bore's assistant maybe?

[Sunking]

Anything with Mass has gravity. It can be measured and calculated with great accuracy. Otherwise there would be no space travel to the moon, Mars, satellites, or deep space probes. Weather, man does not really have any clue what is going on. Any prediction beyond 24 hours is a guess.

[billvon]

Anything with Mass has gravity. It can be measured and calculated with great accuracy. Otherwise there would be no space travel to the moon, Mars, satellites, or deep space probes.

Agreed. Yet some people disagree. (Google the "push theory" of gravity.) Fortunately, just because a few kooks disagree with a theory that otherwise works well, we do not discard it.

Weather, man does not really have any clue what is going on. Any prediction beyond 24 hours is a guess.

And yet we've been warming, on average, for 150 years now. The warmest year, ever, was 2010, and 2013 was the fourth warmest on record.

[ChrisOlson]

Really? You don't think that the Earth's mass causes the gravity you feel? Interesting.

You do not know the exact mechanics of how mass causes gravity. You only know it is a property of mass. It is hypothesized that the gravitational force is mediated by a massless spin-2 particle called the graviton. But this sh!t is invented by scientists that don't really know.

Same thing with climate change. You can hypothesize that human released CO2 causes it. But you don't really know. The facts indicate that the earth has been much warmer than it is now in the past, human released CO2 did not cause that, and nobody knows what caused it. It is highly likely that the earth's warming and cooling cycles are driven by forces man does not understand, and these cycles far outlast the lifespan of a human. So man stating unequivocally that he is going to "control" climate change by reducing CO2 released to the atmosphere has no basis in science. Just like the massless spin-2 particle called the graviton has no basis in science.

[Sunking]

Agreed. Yet some people disagree. (Google the "push theory" of gravity.) Fortunately, just because a few kooks disagree with a theory that otherwise works well, we do not discard it.

Just because man can measure and calculate gravit does not mean he understands it or how to control it. If we could we would not need liquid fuel rockets or engines.

And yet we've been warming, on average, for 150 years now. The warmest year, ever, was 2010, and 2013 was the fourth warmest on record.

Yes and 2014 is shaping up to be one of the coolest years. I agree earth has warmed slightly for 150 years. There is a consensus that the earth has warmed slightly. But there is no such thing as a consensus it is man made, nor that it has any real impact to man. The earth has been cooling and heating since the big bang. The earth CO2 and temperature levels have been much higher in the past than they are now and that is known facts.

What is really happening is the UN and slick politicians are trying to get more control and power especially the UN. It is the greatest fraud every perpetuated on man. The IPCC report by Micheal Mann that started this BS was proven to be fake, they cooked the numbers, it was called Climategate.

[ChrisOlson]

What is really happening is the UN and slick politicians are trying to get more control and power especially the UN. It is the greatest fraud every perpetuated on man. The IPCC report by Micheal Mann

Further, read the latest IPCC report. They are using pure FUD to "sell" climate change instead of scientific fact. Dire predictions of food shortages, civil conflicts, rising sea levels - none of it based on any scientific fact. It is a "hard sell" to push an agenda, and those inclusions of dire predictions totally destroy any credibility of the group releasing it (at least if you have any common sense in believing this is science or no).

The reasonable scientists say that even with a warmer planet there has been no indications in the past of rising sea levels to the extent presented in the IPCC report because of the principle of buoyancy when fresh water is introduced in salt water. And further, humans are a tropical climate animal, thriving far better in tropical conditions than in arctic conditions. Plants (food) are also tropical. So the reasonable scientists that do not partake in the Communion of the Holy Church of Climate Change say that the planet warming to its more normal levels seen (at least in human history) around 300AD to 1200AD is actually GOOD for the human race's long term survival.

So these "scare tactics" work on the general population pretty well, as evidenced by the dedicated followers of Pastor Gore. Those of us which have science and engineering backgrounds are extremely leery of "consensus", especially when it is presented in a way that makes it pure hokum.

[billvon]

Yes and 2014 is shaping up to be one of the coolest years.

I guess we will see come next January. Based on the El Nino brewing in the Pacific I doubt it.

I agree earth has warmed slightly for 150 years. There is a consensus that the earth has warmed slightly. But there is no such thing as a consensus it is man made, nor that it has any real impact to man.

Actually, we've proven it's manmade. Well over 90% of climate scientists agree.
The impacts to man remain to be seen. We can make predictions, of course, but no one can quantify exactly what effect a sea level rise will have on coastal cities, or a shorter growing season will have on farming. Of course many people are working on such predictions.

The earth has been cooling and heating since the big bang. The earth CO2 and temperature levels have been much higher in the past than they are now and that is known facts.

Agreed. So we know that increasing CO2 increases temperature. This time it is humanity that is increasing CO2, rather than volcanic activity.

There are three things that are proven beyond a shadow of a doubt:

1) Mankind is increasing the CO2 concentration in the atmosphere
2) Increasing CO2 concentration will result in more greenhouse effect, thus warming the atmosphere
3) Temperatures have been rising along with CO2 concentrations

What is really happening is the UN and slick politicians are trying to get more control and power especially the UN.

So the UN has more power/money/influence than the world's oil companies? Interesting theory.

Decades ago the Surgeon General published a warning that smoking can cause cancer. The tobacco industry stood to lose billions of dollars in sales if people believed this. To prevent this, they hired dozens of "experts" to deny, distort and sow doubt about the effects of tobacco. "The science isn't proven!" they claimed. Tobacco companies spent millions on these experts and flooded the market with stories about how the Surgeon General's science was flawed, no one could predict who gets lung cancer, it might be something else, there's no way to know for sure etc.

And for a while it worked. Cigarette sales recovered a bit. Then mainstream doctors got involved. And since they had more medical training than the general public, they understood the issues better, and started telling their patients "you should really quit smoking." And today most people understand that bit of science pretty well, fortunately.

When the IPCC released their first report on climate change in 1990, oil and coal companies realized THEY stood to lose hundreds of billions of dollars if people believed this. To prevent this, they hired dozens of "experts" to deny, distort and sow doubt about climate change. "The science isn't proven!" they claimed. Oil and coal companies spent millions on these experts and flooded the market with stories about how climate change is flawed, it's not getting hotter, no one can predict the climate, it's happened before so our actions are irrelevant, it's probably nature, it probably would have gotten hot anyway. In many cases they hired exactly the same people who did such a good job with the tobacco companies.

Fortunately scientists are more immune to such tactics than the general public, which is why well over 90% of them still understand climate change. Also, fortunately, most people are listening to the scientists instead of the fossil fuel industry.

[billvon]

The reasonable scientists say that even with a warmer planet there has been no indications in the past of rising sea levels to the extent presented in the IPCC report because of the principle of buoyancy when fresh water is introduced in salt water.

?? What does that mean?

And further, humans are a tropical climate animal, thriving far better in tropical conditions than in arctic conditions. Plants (food) are also tropical.

Cool, sounds like you accept the climate change we are causing, but think it will be a good thing. That's not unreasonable, although people who are displaced might disagree.

Those of us which have science and engineering backgrounds are extremely leery of "consensus",

Actually without consensus there would be no science or engineering. I use Maxwell's Laws every day, and could not do my job without them.

[russ]

IActually, we've proven it's manmade. We?

Well over 90% of climate scientists agree. WTF is a so called "climate scientist" - a self described lot. The earth is warming - how much and how long is in question.

The impacts to man remain to be seen. We can make predictions, of course, but no one can quantify exactly what effect a sea level rise will have on coastal cities, or a shorter growing season will have on farming. Of course many people are working on such predictions. BS predictions based on half assed science

Agreed. So we know that increasing CO2 increases temperature. This time it is humanity that is increasing CO2, rather than volcanic activity. BS again - YOU know nothing except what you read and you seem to read IPCC comic books

There are three things that are proven beyond a shadow of a doubt:

1) Mankind is increasing the CO2 concentration in the atmosphere
2) Increasing CO2 concentration will result in more greenhouse effect, thus warming the atmosphere
3) Temperatures have been rising along with CO2 concentrations

BS again

So the UN has more power/money/influence than the world's oil companies? Interesting theory. The UN has a bunch of 3rd worlders making jobs for their family mambers

Decades ago the Surgeon General published a warning that smoking can cause cancer. Another silly comparison

When the IPCC released their first report on climate change in 1990, oil and coal companies realized THEY stood to lose hundreds of billions of dollars if people believed this. To prevent this, they hired dozens of "experts" to deny, distort and sow doubt about climate change. "The science isn't proven!" they claimed. Oil and coal companies spent millions on these experts and flooded the market with stories about how climate change is flawed, it's not getting hotter, no one can predict the climate, it's happened before so our actions are irrelevant, it's probably nature, it probably would have gotten hot anyway. In many cases they hired exactly the same people who did such a good job with the tobacco companies.

Fortunately scientists are more immune to such tactics than the general public, which is why well over 90% of them still understand climate change. Also, fortunately, most people are listening to the scientists instead of the fossil fuel industry.

Bill - How can you believe all the BS you type? You seem to want to replace the high priest Al himself!

You even set a new BS standard for CA!

[ChrisOlson]

?? What does that mean?

The fact that the earth is not a solid stone with holes in it that hold water. It is a dynamic structure and the tectonic plates float at an elevation that depends on the load on the lithosphere and asthenoshere. Geological isostasy is the principle of buoyancy where an object (continent) immersed in a liquid (ocean water) is buoyed with a force equal to the weight of the displaced liquid.

It is why global sea levels have never changed significantly since the planet was born, and have only changed with a change in exposed land mass (from tectonic plate movement causing earthquakes, or volcanic activity).

[SunEagle]

The fact that the earth is not a solid stone with holes in it that hold water. It is a dynamic structure and the tectonic plates float at an elevation that depends on the load on the lithosphere and asthenoshere. Geological isostasy is the principle of buoyancy where an object (continent) immersed in a liquid (ocean water) is buoyed with a force equal to the weight of the displaced liquid.

It is why global sea levels have never changed significantly since the planet was born, and have only changed with a change in exposed land mass (from tectonic plate movement causing earthquakes, or volcanic activity).

Glad you brought that up Chris. I have tried to explain that sea level changes is not only affected by polar ice melt off but also due to plate movement to people but have always gotten blank stares because they thought the land was a fixed point.

[Sunking]

Glad you brought that up Chris. I have tried to explain that sea level changes is not only affected by polar ice melt off but also due to plate movement to people but have always gotten blank stares because they thought the land was a fixed point.

You need to speak Moron. Something like continents are like ice cubes in a bowl of water.