41.3kW DIY Solar Panel Install on 4 houses

[oregon_phil]

The OP still has 3 homes of solar to install so I think this bit of discussion about "history" and "obsolescence" is worthwhile. Rapid shutdown changes have evolved quite dramatically between NEC 2014 and NEC 2017. My system was installed fall 2018 which isn't that long ago. Giving some background on why certain component or system decision were made on my system might just help somebody educate themselves and make a better decision in the future. I know I like it when people give more background information.

[Ampster]

sunspect alliance wasn't even around in 2014 (SMA ROOFTOP) or 2010 Xantrec is out of business right?
lets talk about todays gear, not yesteryears has beens.

In post #16 someone sidetracked thus thread by raising the question, "... if they go out of business in 9 years you are screwed? Now, you want us to forget history?

[khanh dam]

sunspect alliance wasn't even around in 2014 (SMA ROOFTOP) or 2010 Xantrec is out of business right?
lets talk about todays gear, not yesteryears has beens.

[oregon_phil]

I agree with this. My old system used a SMA 2014 rapid shutdown box on the roof. This solution was obsoleted late 2018/early 2019. If that box failed, I would have been SOL. That less than stellar SMA 2014 RSD "solution" made me dissatisfied enough that I had it removed and replaced with TIGO's when my SMA inverter was RMA'ed in 2020.

[Ampster]

not sure how you propose to easily manage this risk? is there a cheaper way?

Yes buy a backup or a used one when one fails. The hard risk to manage is the evolving standards. None of this is unique to Solaredge. The SMA example and my Xantrex example are just two cases.

[oregon_phil]

For my system, I bought two TIGO TS4-R-O's that were being obsoleted. I haven't bought a backup inverter like Bruce. I probably should have. While the SMA 7.7 -40 is functionally the same as the -41 and is the same size, SMA changed the stupid mounting bracket. It's not that big of a deal, but I would have to change the 2x6 support structure behind the inverter to match the new pattern.

[khanh dam]

the use of a proprietary method of communication does not increase the risk significantly. That risk can be easily managed.

best method IMHO is to buy back up inverter and optimizers and keep them in storage. maybe charge it up once a year to keep capacitors fresh.

not sure how you propose to easily manage this risk? is there a cheaper way?

[Ampster]

You know you are right. The more I think about it, even the Tigo Access point and gateway use a proprietary method of communication. As does my thermostat, furnace and outside condenser.

From a risk management perspective there are a lot of proprietary systems out there. I don't mean to beat a dead horse but your observation just points out to me that the use of a proprietary method of communication does not increase the risk significantly. That risk can be easily managed.
I hope this makes the OP feel better about his Solaredge decision despite some flames to the contrary.
.

[oregon_phil]

You know you are right. The more I think about it, even the Tigo Access point and gateway use a proprietary method of communication. As does my thermostat, furnace and outside condenser.

I guess it's the RS 485 side of it that was bugging me. It has been around forever. You have to know something about the system, how components are added or subtracted, dip switches, terminations, ID number, blah, blah, blah. My SMA inverter has two ethernet ports that can be easily chained together. But looking at the SMA battery inverter, they use RS -485 to communicate to the battery, energy meter, and OMG there are dip switches to set. I'm going to let this one go because it looks like industry has decided.

[bcroe]

I don't understand why SolarEdge uses a proprietary method between inverter and optimizers,
but uses RS-485 to communicate to other pieces of equipment.

I thought, optimizers manage to multiplex communication on the existing power wiring,
but RS-485 would have required another (generally not weatherproof) signal network
to all optimizer positions. Bruce Roe

[oregon_phil]

This discussion seems to be veering off the OP's original thread on installing solar on 4 homes, but also seems to be very relevant since OP still has 3 homes to go and did choose SolarEdge over SMA for house 1.

if they are part of the sunspec alliance that guarantees compatibility between inverter and RSD units under each solar panel, then you just have to replace the inverter. With SolarEdge you have to take off every panel and replace the optimizer/RSD because they are proprietary and only work with their proprietary inverter was my point

To me, the sunspec alliance protocol used between components makes a lot of sense. Standards are what make USB, ethernet, RS-485, wifi, etc. work between components. Generally, future standards typically try to maintain compatibility with older components. Not an absolute however. Standards are what make the billions of electronic devices in the world useful to us humans.

Proprietary equipment & methods often set you down one specific path vs another: string inverter with TIGO vs SolarEdge vs Enphase. VHS vs Beta max. Mac vs PC. The OP has chosen SolarEdge for house 1, but that doesn't mean house 2, 3 or 4 has to be SolarEdge. Once you make the first decision to use SolarEdge it's harder to justify changing to other solutions for the other homes.

I don't understand why SolarEdge uses a proprietary method between inverter and optimizers, but uses RS-485 to communicate to other pieces of equipment. I bet two different design teams worked on the DC/AC power side and another team worked on communication. And of course, RS-485 is probably dirt cheap.

My next system most likely will be Tesla. They are also a high growth company with much more leverage than Solaredge.

Yes Tesla 2020 is having high solar growth compared to 2019, but Tesla's solar deployment is way off Q4 2015 numbers. Telsa makes some innovative products. Maybe that's why a 932 P/E ratio is justified. It's just not for me.

I have an SMA inverter with Tigo TS4-R-O optimizers (winter time shading, but then again hardly any sun in the winter). Yes I have had problems with the SMA inverter, SMA technical support takes forever to talk to a real person (hours and hours of hold time), but I did have the chance to look inside of my old inverter that was RMA'ed. The electronic portion of the inverter is built like a tank and is 100% sealed up to the environment. If you have a good installer, the interconnect portion of the inverter will be sealed up correctly too. Even with all the SMA hassles that I have had, I still think they are engineered correctly.

Nobody asked me, but I would use SMA inverters with JMS-F rapid shutdown for homes without shade or SMA inverter with Tigo TS4-A-O optimizers for homes with shade.

[Ampster]

It is pretty clear you have made up your mind and my experience with two systems has caused me to reach a different conclusion.

[khanh dam]

Have you looked at the financials of Solaredge to assess the probability of them going out of business? I have and I think that the risk to me is trivial vs the value they provide.

might want to read what actual installers think of solar edge. Extremely high failure rate and warranty claims. Can't run a good business with having to replace 30 to 50% of your product.
(2) Solar installers | Facebook
above link search for solar edge and educate yourself on thier failure rate.

[Ampster]

Have you looked at the financials of Solaredge to assess the probability of them going out of business? I have and I think that the risk to me is trivial vs the value they provide.

My next system most likely will be Tesla who is now using proprietary inverters but their price is significantly less than the competition. They are also a high growth company with much more leverage than Solaredge. I think there is more risk with my utility reducing the payback of my system and there is where i am hedging risk.I am not trying to change your mind, I am talking at other readers who might have a different risk curve than you. It all depends on where you are standing.

[khanh dam]

the point is proprietary inverters with proprietary RSD/optimizer hardware is the norm now a days and I can pretty much see the writing on the wall in 10 to 15 years when these string inverters start failing, there will be companies that fold and customers left to deal with the expensive mess and solar again will get a black eye, just like solyndra. might as well say I told you so now to try and steer you in a less risky hardware path.