Solar panels increase house prices.

[pleppik]

Is it defiantly worth having solar installed on my house? i really like the idea of it increasing the price of my property

Your mileage is really going to vary on this. In some places, with some buyers, you will get some of the cost of the solar installation back in the sale price of the property. In other places, people won't care.

This is also something that's likely to change over time, as the general perceptions of solar power change.

You would think that, from a purely economic perspective, buyers would be willing to pay more for a house with lower utility bills. In practice, real estate is rarely so rational.

[russ]

Is it defiantly worth having solar installed on my house? i really like the idea of it increasing the price of my property

It may or it may not. You say you have read a lot about solar - did you remember any of it?

[katiejaneeex]

Increasing house price

Is it defiantly worth having solar installed on my house? i really like the idea of it increasing the price of my property

[J.P.M.]

Really? No addition on property tax?..

Nope .

[patienceweilan]

Yes, in California. The only consession at the time was the added PV gear did not add to the property tax.

Really? No addition on property tax?..

[russ]

I believe that would be a tremendous waste of time.

Believe what you want - green fools are masters at self deception.

Best regards and don't let the door knob hit you in the butt on the way out.

[snic]

What most people either don't know or fail to understand is that the power in Germany (while a lot of it is from renewable sources) is not generated 24/7. Renewable generation does not work 24/7 period. No one in the world is getting their power 100% from renewable sources.

When they can't generate from renewable sources, Germany use to get their power from their Nuclear plants. As they continue to shut those down they have started to purchase more power from outside the country. They are painting themselves into a corner where they will become dependent on someone else generating facilities.

It is a matter of physics. Either generate from fossil or Nuclear fuel to support you when the renewable sources are down or turn off all of you electrical needs and light the candles.

It could be that Germany's politics is moving faster than its technology: their stated goal is to get 80% of their power from renewable sources by 2050, but technology might not be up to that time frame.

On the other hand, in the United States, politics has been slow to keep up with technology. We can definitely do better with the technology we have.

Germany might not achieve its goal, but renewable energy incentives there might also lead to more rapid development of technology that gets them far closer to their goal than we will get by not setting ambitious goals.

[snic]

Snic:

While respecting your opinion, I suspect your level of technical knowledge of the subject put you at a disadvantage as does what seems to be IMO, an argumentative attitude for its own sake. Good luck.

The discussion began with someone asserting that "you will always need another energy source;" renewable will never be enough. I replied that people can change their energy usage habits (particularly in response to a rising cost of energy). It takes no technical knowledge at all to understand that demand goes down when cost goes up.

Then I said that technology increases under the right market conditions, solving problems. Not only is that completely non-controversial, but it takes no specialized technical knowledge to understand it -- and to apply that statement to the issue at hand: as technology improves, it will lead to generating and storing enough renewable energy to greatly reduce or eliminate the need for fossil fuels. Putting proper incentives in place (i.e., ensuring the right market conditions) can accelerate this process.

So I disagree that it is necessarily true that "you will always need another energy source".

If you are smart enough to read old posts on the topic you will see my position is unchanged over the past 5 years

I believe that would be a tremendous waste of time.

[russ]

Germany and electric power? http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...or-brown-coal/

Germany is trying the CA solution also - import. Germany has the unfortunate situation that the government has to kiss the backside of the green party routinely - a totally loser!

Denmark exports surplus wind power for storage and reimports it - not a real solution.

I agree that whoever comes up with a good storage solution will be the next Bill Gates - in another thread a new member wants to use storage to shift solar thermal from summer to winter - no bloody chance with what we have today.

[J.P.M.]

Even if the holy grail of energy storage is "discovered" to make it plausible would still require a large amount of the world population to greatly reduce the amount of electricity it uses.

That will be hard on those countries that are still expanding or others that are too lazy or refuse to turn off their electronics and just relax and listen to the insects at night.

Why ? If I can set any goal(s) I want, then one goal, of several or many might have something to do with size or scope, or gradual replacement with minimal disruption of the status quo. I never meant to suggest it was easy, quick or simple. Sometimes solutions require thinking out of the box in conjunction with a lot of persistence, sweat, patience and luck.

[SunEagle]

As perhaps something else long term to consider : working toward safe, cost effective, practical and scaleable energy storage ? I'd bet whoever actually solves that one will be the next Bill Gates.

Even if the holy grail of energy storage is "discovered" to make it plausible would still require a large amount of the world population to greatly reduce the amount of electricity it uses.

That will be hard on those countries that are still expanding or others that are too lazy or refuse to turn off their electronics and just relax and listen to the insects at night.

[J.P.M.]

What most people either don't know or fail to understand is that the power in Germany (while a lot of it is from renewable sources) is not generated 24/7. Renewable generation does not work 24/7 period. No one in the world is getting their power 100% from renewable sources.

When they can't generate from renewable sources, Germany use to get their power from their Nuclear plants. As they continue to shut those down they have started to purchase more power from outside the country. They are painting themselves into a corner where they will become dependent on someone else generating facilities.

It is a matter of physics. Either generate from fossil or Nuclear fuel to support you when the renewable sources are down or turn off all of you electrical needs and light the candles.

As perhaps something else long term to consider : working toward safe, cost effective, practical and scaleable energy storage ? I'd bet whoever actually solves that one will be the next Bill Gates.

[SunEagle]

I'm aware of all these points. The energy market is not going to change quickly, that's a given. But it has already changed far faster in Europe (especially Denmark and Germany) than it has here. That is because the Germans and the Danish realize that the free market isn't going to solve all problems. A far greater percentage of their power comes from renewable sources than ours because it's incentivized. As you are certainly aware, despite the relatively large contribution of wind and solar power there to the total, everyone in Germany and Denmark has 24 hour refrigeration and lights on at night. But energy conservation measures are also more widespread there (almost certainly more than in Texas), so, for instance, those lights might automatically turn off when a person leaves a room. Add these sorts of technologies up over the entire population, and you end up with less need for that nighttime power.

I don't know where you get the idea that I "hope and wish that someone will invent the perfect solution". That is not what I said. I hope and wish for a regulated energy market in which the growth and development of renewable energy technology (as well as energy conservation efforts and technology) is fostered by appropriate incentives. "Someone" won't invent the "perfect solution," but if there is profit in it, multiple solutions will emerge and they will get better with time. This strikes me as a far more rational approach to the problem of climate change than simply throwing up one's hands and saying "batteries won't work so we need nuclear and/or fossil fuels."

We don't have the answers now; that's true. And fossil fuels probably will continue to provide energy for us for decades and centuries. But that doesn't mean we can't do all we can right now to minimize their use. In my opinion, we aren't doing enough.

What most people either don't know or fail to understand is that the power in Germany (while a lot of it is from renewable sources) is not generated 24/7. Renewable generation does not work 24/7 period. No one in the world is getting their power 100% from renewable sources.

When they can't generate from renewable sources, Germany use to get their power from their Nuclear plants. As they continue to shut those down they have started to purchase more power from outside the country. They are painting themselves into a corner where they will become dependent on someone else generating facilities.

It is a matter of physics. Either generate from fossil or Nuclear fuel to support you when the renewable sources are down or turn off all of you electrical needs and light the candles.

[russ]

Ah, I see. So you agree with me all along. It's just that you prefer to mock and insult anyone who you think espouses a "green" point of view.

If you are smart enough to read old posts on the topic you will see my position is unchanged over the past 5 years and longer.

Green, to me, generally means empty headed parroting of phrases (warmer garbage for example) and following whatever hair brained idea is currently in vogue. Anti nuclear, anti GMO, anti big whatever for example.

Yes - I will mock those I consider fools - they deserve it.

[J.P.M.]

Ah, I see. So you agree with me all along. It's just that you prefer to mock and insult anyone who you think espouses a "green" point of view.



Yes, and yes.



I did not say anything remotely similar to "you could just do this and the world would be fine". I said that the solution will take a long time in coming and that we don't know what it will look like, but we need to foster an energy market in which the participants are incentivized to look for the solution. I think this is a reasonable outlook. That, in fact, is the extent of my opinion on renewable energy, but it has not been addressed in any of the responses to what I've written. I guess it's more fun to bluster about enivro-nazis and accuse people of ranting.

Snic:

While respecting your opinion, I suspect your level of technical knowledge of the subject put you at a disadvantage as does what seems to be IMO, an argumentative attitude for its own sake. Good luck.