Solar panels increase house prices.

[russ]

All of us who have used them for decades, understand finance, and have good relationships with them. Bankers have given my wife and I the opportunity to go to college, start a business and buy a home, and those opportunities have paid themselves back many times over.

Use them is one thing - trust they have to earn on an individual basis. Your analogy is BS by the way.

[billvon]

Now you do bring up a good point - who, in their right mind, trusts a banker?

All of us who have used them for decades, understand finance, and have good relationships with them. Bankers have given my wife and I the opportunity to go to college, start a business and buy a home, and those opportunities have paid themselves back many times over.

[russ]

Loose ship? Unless you are in the industry you're out of your depth. Standard industry practice from the largest commercial banks to credit unions to brokerages is to have the borrower pay for the appraisal. We have no vested interest in the appraisal other than to rely upon it for third-party valuation of the collateral. Sometimes we will allow for the appraisal to be paid for at closing and for the most part that's a call made by the individual loan officer. In some rare cases we may provide a lender credit towards the cost of the second appraisal if the first appraiser really dropped the ball.

I'm starting to see a common theme in these forums. There's a lot of noise. Appraiser bashing, opining about how the home appraisal process works, etc. is largely irrelevant to the original posters question. Any relevant responses seem to get lost in this noise.

Now you do bring up a good point - who, in their right mind, trusts a banker?

You chatter like a good professional chatterer - nothing more.

Of course the borrower pays the appraisal - even when it goes against your best interest.

The last I had to do with the US bank system - in North Carolina - was 1996 - glad to be shot of it.

[inetdog]

Loose ship? Unless you are in the industry you're out of your depth. Standard industry practice from the largest commercial banks to credit unions to brokerages is to have the borrower pay for the appraisal. We have no vested interest in the appraisal other than to rely upon it for third-party valuation of the collateral. Sometimes we will allow for the appraisal to be paid for at closing and for the most part that's a call made by the individual loan officer. In some rare cases we may provide a lender credit towards the cost of the second appraisal if the first appraiser really dropped the ball.

I'm starting to see a common theme in these forums. There's a lot of noise. Appraiser bashing, opining about how the home appraisal process works, etc. is largely irrelevant to the original posters question. Any relevant responses seem to get lost in this noise.

Just human nature. We tend to trust SWAGs and opinion from someone we respect more than hard facts from someone we do not know.

[EEMLoanGuy]

Come on! As soon as an officer doesn't use an appraisal the entire deal is open to question - order a second? You guys might run a loose ship but banks I worked with didn't.

They did use independent appraisers - working with a company could give you leverage to get the appraiser to change his viewpoint.

Loose ship? Unless you are in the industry you're out of your depth. Standard industry practice from the largest commercial banks to credit unions to brokerages is to have the borrower pay for the appraisal. We have no vested interest in the appraisal other than to rely upon it for third-party valuation of the collateral. Sometimes we will allow for the appraisal to be paid for at closing and for the most part that's a call made by the individual loan officer. In some rare cases we may provide a lender credit towards the cost of the second appraisal if the first appraiser really dropped the ball.

I'm starting to see a common theme in these forums. There's a lot of noise. Appraiser bashing, opining about how the home appraisal process works, etc. is largely irrelevant to the original posters question. Any relevant responses seem to get lost in this noise.

[russ]

Not sure what you mean. I'm the guy at the bank that orders the appraisal and the officer. We use AMC's (appraisal management companies) as the intermediary between the lender and the appraiser and the AMC engages the appraiser for us. If it's a unique property we make a note to the AMC to make sure the appraiser selected has the relevant experience. If there is a problem with the appraisal we challenge it. If the challenge is not successful we have two options: 1. Work with the value provided or 2. Order a new appraisal. In the case where a second appraisal is ordered, both appraisals must be presented to the underwriter accompanied by a letter of explanation from the loan officer as to why the underwriter should use the higher of the two appraisals.

Come on! As soon as an officer doesn't use an appraisal the entire deal is open to question - order a second? You guys might run a loose ship but banks I worked with didn't.

They did use independent appraisers - working with a company could give you leverage to get the appraiser to change his viewpoint.

[EEMLoanGuy]

A big problem with appraisers is when the bank orders the appraisal and it comes in faulty - no way the bank changes it's mind as the officer would lose his head over it.

Not sure what you mean. I'm the guy at the bank that orders the appraisal and the officer. We use AMC's (appraisal management companies) as the intermediary between the lender and the appraiser and the AMC engages the appraiser for us. If it's a unique property we make a note to the AMC to make sure the appraiser selected has the relevant experience. If there is a problem with the appraisal we challenge it. If the challenge is not successful we have two options: 1. Work with the value provided or 2. Order a new appraisal. In the case where a second appraisal is ordered, both appraisals must be presented to the underwriter accompanied by a letter of explanation from the loan officer as to why the underwriter should use the higher of the two appraisals.

[russ]

A big problem with appraisers is when the bank orders the appraisal and it comes in faulty - no way the bank changes it's mind as the officer would lose his head over it.

[EEMLoanGuy]

Never trust an appraiser - the donkey's backsides have cost me on development projects. Often their assumptions have a very questionable basis.

I've received thousands of appraisal reports in my career. I've received my fair share from incompetent appraisers and others where as you say there were questionable assumptions. The HVCC (home valuation code of conduct) was great in that it set a firewall between lenders and appraisers so that lenders could not influence the valuation of the home, but it also made it difficult to engage competent appraisers with specific market knowledge and drove many highly qualified appraisers out of the business.

In my experience an appraisal with "questionable assumptions" can be successfully challenged, but it's not fun as appraisers have strong opinions regarding those assumptions. Specific to residential appraisals I've found it's best to try and engage a local appraiser with in-depth experience in the local market and if there are unique property features finding an appraiser with relevant experience. It's extra work, but it can save a lot of headaches. An appraiser that only appraises suburban tract homes at $200 a pop is going to provide an "interesting" appraisal report on say a rural dome home with solar pv.

[SunEagle]

Most of the appraisers I've met did not impress me with their intelligence. Probably a job hazard from working with banks and finance companies and their stooges.

Oh they are intelligent. But their focus is usually on a way of getting more money into their pockets or who they represent.

[J.P.M.]

Never trust an appraiser - the donkey's backsides have cost me on development projects. Often their assumptions have a very questionable basis.

Most of the appraisers I've met did not impress me with their intelligence. Probably a job hazard from working with banks and finance companies and their stooges.

[russ]

If it's important to you, don't get your info from an internet message board,
Agreed

contact an appraiser in your area and keep in mind that appraised value is a bit of an art, you will still only receive their opinion.

Never trust an appraiser - the donkey's backsides have cost me on development projects. Often their assumptions have a very questionable basis.

[Sunking]

A house is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Very rare anyone will pay what the house is appraised for or what the owner is asking. Those days are long gone.

[EEMLoanGuy]

The best answer is probably, but maybe not.

I'll limit the scope of my reply to owned solar. Appraisal methodologies and guidelines have started to evolve to allow appraisers to properly consider the value of solar PV. Sandra Adomatis has put in a lot of work in making sure that appraisers are trained to properly value solar PV and you'd be well served to look into some of her work.

However, everyone wants the quick and easy answer so I'll give one. GENERALLY, here in Arizona, the value added to the appraisal for a new installation is the purchase price less any incentives. SOMETIMES, an appraiser will give more value if they determine that the homeowner obtained their system at below market rates. Additionally, appraisers must provide an analysis of comparable sales with solar PV even if they do not rely upon them for their valuation...they now MUST be considered. Using the paired-sales analysis method it's possible that no value could be given to your panels since the paired-sales approach is intended to be the most representative of true market value.

It's somewhat safe to assume that you will get the "net price" of the system. But, you'd serve yourself well by contacting a local appraiser that is trained in valuing solar PV before making any decisions if the value added from solar PV is a factor in your decision to go solar.

If it's important to you, don't get your info from an internet message board, contact an appraiser in your area and keep in mind that appraised value is a bit of an art, you will still only receive their opinion.

[russ]

The games the guy in the white house is playing with coal fired power generation have more potential to upset domestic prices than events around the world as regards NG. The announcement to be made today I believe it the high point for stupidity.