Solar panels increase house prices.

[lkruper]

It's like with anything - it's an investment, which you have to count up costs and possible profits. With special plan to design it and selling the rest of produced energy it should profitable at last.

If you can make more profit from buying government bonds with no risk and no need to put holes in your roof, then what is the better investment? Higher risk investing is generally only done because of a higher profit potential.

[lkruper]

It's like with anything - it's an investment, which you have to count up costs and possible profits. With special plan to design it and selling the rest of produced energy it should profitable at last.

If you can make more profit from buying government bonds with no risk and no need to put holes in your roof, then what is the better investment? Higher risk investing is generally only done because of a higher profit potential?

[requir]

It's like with anything - it's an investment, which you have to count up costs and possible profits. With special plan to design it and selling the rest of produced energy it should profitable at last.

[J.P.M.]

Wouldn't a solar system need to be replaced in 25 years (or large portions of the electronics sooner?) Any increase in real estate value would only be seen if one sells before the payback period. After 15 years it would seem that the technology would be much different and more efficient and perhaps much less expensive that what was initially installed. But I have no experience, so what do I know?

Age of a system, tech. advances, less wow factor with age and a bunch of other stuff all play a role in resale/salvage value calcs. At the end of the day, it's all about perceived value of a thing and the manipulation of that perception.

[lkruper]

Short answer to your question about being a risk. YES.

The long payback and possible little to any real estate value increase is a big barrier to most people concerning solar. With average electric rates of $0.12/kWh and low yearly usage it makes paybacks much longer then someone in CA or HI especially with usage over 1000kWh/mth.

Though surprising people in the Northern states that have low electric rates, low insolation and snow still decide to go solar regardless of how long it pays for itself.

It really comes down to what is more important to people for them to make any decision. Sometimes finances is the top motivator and other times it is more a personal feeling about doing what they think is right no matter the cost.

Wouldn't a solar system need to be replaced in 25 years (or large portions of the electronics sooner?) Any increase in real estate value would only be seen if one sells before the payback period. After 15 years it would seem that the technology would be much different and more efficient and perhaps much less expensive that what was initially installed. But I have no experience, so what do I know?

[SunEagle]

I have heard that most businesses consider a three year payback on an investment to be a good factor. Maybe that was when interest rates were higher? I am not an investment person, so I do not know. However it does seem to me that if it takes 10-15 years to pay back an investment on something where in that time the hardware is outdated, is that not a risk?

Just as a napkin calculation, if solar was break even at 15 years and it lasts 25 years, are there other investments that can give that kind of return without putting holes in ones roof?

Short answer to your question about being a risk. YES.

The long payback and possible little to any real estate value increase is a big barrier to most people concerning solar. With average electric rates of $0.12/kWh and low yearly usage it makes paybacks much longer then someone in CA or HI especially with usage over 1000kWh/mth.

Though surprising people in the Northern states that have low electric rates, low insolation and snow still decide to go solar regardless of how long it pays for itself.

It really comes down to what is more important to people for them to make any decision. Sometimes finances is the top motivator and other times it is more a personal feeling about doing what they think is right no matter the cost.

[lkruper]

Are there better investiments than solar?

I have heard that most businesses consider a three year payback on an investment to be a good factor. Maybe that was when interest rates were higher? I am not an investment person, so I do not know. However it does seem to me that if it takes 10-15 years to pay back an investment on something where in that time the hardware is outdated, is that not a risk?

Just as a napkin calculation, if solar was break even at 15 years and it lasts 25 years, are there other investments that can give that kind of return without putting holes in ones roof?

[SunEagle]

http://energy.sandia.gov/energy/rene...tion/pv-value/

there are some recent ones here.One of the recent by Berkeley Labs has the system added value decrease by 10% a year. there is info for leases and pace financing if you look.

The sad part of trying to determine what adds value to a home is a moving target and can be completely useless without input from people in the Real Estate market, recent home Sellers and Buyers.

Besides "location" being a top determination for buying a house, what the interior looks like is also a big factor. Peoples taste change. Shag carpets and bright wall paper were a big draw in the 70's. Then there was the black, white and metal decor. The appeal of color, material and functionality in a home changes like the weather. A pool could be a be draw for people or a turn off if they are fearful of a child drowning. Color of appliances (frigs, stove, dishwasher, etc.) go from yellow to white to black to stainless steel. What appeals to people will continue to change and will be hard to predict.

Unless the feature or appliance is a current "must have" or an "absolute" need the probability that it will be passe and not wanted the longer it has been installed.

[SoCalsolar]

current study

http://energy.sandia.gov/energy/renewable-energy/solar-energy/photovoltaics/solar-market-tranformation/pv-value/

there are some recent ones here.One of the recent by Berkeley Labs has the system added value decrease by 10% a year. there is info for leases and pace financing if you look.

[SunEagle]

A home is worth no more than someone is willing to pay. Some folks who are home buyers think solar is ugly and in general it sucks. Some folks who are home buyers think solar is great but may want the latest gadgets and toys and not your, say, 10 yr. old outdated technology. Some knowledgeable folks who are home buyers know that solar electric sized to you needs will probably be incorrectly or inappropriately sized for their needs, making an existing system somewhat unsuited for their needs.

No one knows what the future holds, but I'd SWAG it that as solar electric grows, folks will become more knowledgeable and thus perhaps more realistic about its limitations. When/if that happens, I wouldn't be surprised if existing solar is looked on as more of an albatross around the neck of the seller than a selling point for the property.

FWIW, knowing what I know, I'd never buy a house with an existing solar electric system on the property. But, opinions vary.

I agree with you. It all comes down to what people see as a "value added" feature to their home.

To most a solar pv system could be a benefit but is not necessarily "value added" especially if it is more than a few years old. To others it could be a detraction due to way they perceive how it looks.

Maybe in a few years when (if) a larger portion of the home owners really desire a solar pv system then it could be valued as high as a new kitchen.

[J.P.M.]

I think solar panels inherently do increase a homes value as they lower the operating expenses. However, there is not much good, recent, data discussing the impacts of this. I've seen a couple of reports that are ~5 years old or so trying to quantify the value of residential PV, but nothing more recently. I imagine with significant growth of PV recently that there might be some more data/studies being performed. Is anyone aware of a more recent study on this matter?

A home is worth no more than someone is willing to pay. Some folks who are home buyers think solar is ugly and in general it sucks. Some folks who are home buyers think solar is great but may want the latest gadgets and toys and not your, say, 10 yr. old outdated technology. Some knowledgeable folks who are home buyers know that solar electric sized to you needs will probably be incorrectly or inappropriately sized for their needs, making an existing system somewhat unsuited for their needs.

No one knows what the future holds, but I'd SWAG it that as solar electric grows, folks will become more knowledgeable and thus perhaps more realistic about its limitations. When/if that happens, I wouldn't be surprised if existing solar is looked on as more of an albatross around the neck of the seller than a selling point for the property.

FWIW, knowing what I know, I'd never buy a house with an existing solar electric system on the property. But, opinions vary.

[PVpower]

I think solar panels inherently do increase a homes value as they lower the operating expenses. However, there is not much good, recent, data discussing the impacts of this. I've seen a couple of reports that are ~5 years old or so trying to quantify the value of residential PV, but nothing more recently. I imagine with significant growth of PV recently that there might be some more data/studies being performed. Is anyone aware of a more recent study on this matter?

[EEMLoanGuy]

I know this is not what somebody will necessarily pay for a property but this is from Zillow. This is my house and as you can see by the last 30 days and the chart after I had my pv install inspected 80 days ago, the value of my house started going up. Now I'm nervous of the tax bill. I will see what that brings. I was told they are not allowed to tax it for either 10 or 15 years I can't remember.

Zillow uses an AVM value (automated valuation model) that basically looks for comparable home sales. These AVM's do not factor in the value of solar, they don't even know that you home has solar. It depends on where you live, but the value of solar is not added to the assessed value of your home in many taxing districts. Home values are "dynamic" and zillow or any other AVM is not a reliable indicator for the potential increases in property taxes. I could understand your concern, but if you want to put that concern to bed just contact your local tax assessors office.

[Mb190e]

I know this is not what somebody will necessarily pay for a property but this is from Zillow. This is my house and as you can see by the last 30 days and the chart after I had my pv install inspected 80 days ago, the value of my house started going up. Now I'm nervous of the tax bill. I will see what that brings. I was told they are not allowed to tax it for either 10 or 15 years I can't remember.

[billvon]

Use them is one thing - trust they have to earn on an individual basis.

Agreed. Use bankers you know and trust. The ones we used came recommended.

Your analogy is BS by the way.

I didn't make an analogy.