Time of Use Bill Credits with SCE

[russ]

FWIW, I think things in theory could be better but I gave up the Don Quixote syndrome of life proscription some time ago.

Here they have Nas Retin Hoca - he rode his donkey sitting aimed to the back - so he could see where he had been.

I have great trouble understanding the general attitude of the public. For example it is popular to claim the American Dream is dead. My father lived that dream - he worked very hard for a lifetime and retired comfortable. His life on the farm was made up of hard times and long hours - one of his jokes was that he only made about 25 cents per hour but he could work all the hours he wanted.

Myself, I escaped the farm as soon as possible and followed my own dream.

[J.P.M.]

Yes the indifference of the masses, coupled with greed by those in power, got us here. Its not so
easy to just "use less" etc, without going back to tents & caves. Those early people had a hard
life, and not a very long & healthy one.

The shortage of propane was claimed caused by a shortage of pipelines, which had been changed
(with no alternate plan) over to the natural gas we were desperately exporting to keep prices high.
I am not accepting the present "market" or "business" excuses as justified, though they might be
legal. There need to be more demanders and fewer sheeple before anything improves; meantime
I have stopped buying propane & electricity, I have done a lot of other stuff. Still working on the
gasoline problem. Bruce Roe

Use less does not mean use nothing as the first paragraph above may imply. I think I've noticed a general trend to enable lazy thinking by reducing as many things as possible to a dichotomous all or nothing ways of thinking. Maybe a result of the general dumbing of America, which seems to be spreading to pandemic levels. Sort of like the Bevis & Butthead outlook that everything is either cool or it sucks - easier than trying to think something through. Another example - someone once said, that to him, conservation meant being hot in the summer and cold in the winter. There's not a lot I can do with that statement. I've suggested that a better way to look at that might be spending as little as possible to attain a desired comfort level. There are a lot of lifestyles that fall between subsistence and mc mansions.

As a practical matter, whether business practices are ethical, moral or justifiable doesn't matter. Business is what it is. As You and some others have done, myself included to some small extent, not liking the way the game is run, we've drawn back and reduced contact with the system. That's our choice. However, trying to keep a perhaps more cosmopolitan and less parochial view of things, I'd guess most folks don't see things the same way we do. I think they are screwing themselves by continually enabling their self induced ignorance, but it ain't my life/money/whatever. FWIW, I think things in theory could be better but I gave up the Don Quixote syndrome of life proscription some time ago.

[billvon]

Exactly! The fuels will go to whomever will pay the most for them. That's the beauty of Keystone: tar sands refined products will get world pricing instead of depressed Midwest pricing.

Which is both its strength and its weakness.

[Ian S]

Come on! It is a world market in a fungible product with many, many players.

Exactly! The fuels will go to whomever will pay the most for them. That's the beauty of Keystone: tar sands refined products will get world pricing instead of depressed Midwest pricing.

[russ]

to the natural gas we were desperately exporting to keep prices high.
I am not accepting the present "market" or "business" excuses as justified, though they might be
legal. There need to be more demanders and fewer sheeple before anything improves; meantime
I have stopped buying propane & electricity, I have done a lot of other stuff. Still working on the
gasoline problem. Bruce Roe

Come on! It is a world market in a fungible product with many, many players. The US exporting LNG - maybe not importing as much is a better term.

Don't let the conspiracy bug get you!

[bcroe]

Part of the reason for "shortages", contrived or not, may be due to the idea that most conventional sources you mention are fungible quantities and subject to market conditions which may or may not be manipulated (but IMO, almost always have been and will be). Solar tends to be less fungible, but SREC's, bundling of leases, centralized solar power production and other means of making it more malleable will probably make it more fungible - some would call those things attempts to control solar power. There may be some nefarious plot to screw all of us or not. either way, it's just business. If anyone thinks they're being screwed by the system, they always have the option to use less, interact with the system less and in their eyes at least, give the system less opportunity to screw them. Most sheeple complain and do nothing of a productive nature. My apologies to those of us who are not sheeple.

Yes the indifference of the masses, coupled with greed by those in power, got us here. Its not so
easy to just "use less" etc, without going back to tents & caves. Those early people had a hard
life, and not a very long & healthy one.

The shortage of propane was claimed caused by a shortage of pipelines, which had been changed
(with no alternate plan) over to the natural gas we were desperately exporting to keep prices high.
I am not accepting the present "market" or "business" excuses as justified, though they might be
legal. There need to be more demanders and fewer sheeple before anything improves; meantime
I have stopped buying propane & electricity, I have done a lot of other stuff. Still working on the
gasoline problem. Bruce Roe

[russ]

Propane from $1.49 to over $5, Bruce Roe

Propane is limited in availability plus has a higher value as a feedstock (normally). It will always be more subject to market conditions.

[J.P.M.]

I am starting to realize one of its advantages: energy from the sun isn't subject to "market" price swings.

Recently we have had a huge increase in domestic energy production, prices should be dropping.
Not to allow that, the "powers" start exporting as much as possible. When we are in the middle
of the coldest winter I have ever experienced here, depending on energy, "they" declare a
"SHORTAGE" and make huge price increases. Propane from $1.49 to over $5, but fortunately
with solar, I didn't have to buy any.
Bruce Roe

Part of the reason for "shortages", contrived or not, may be due to the idea that most conventional sources you mention are fungible quantities and subject to market conditions which may or may not be manipulated (but IMO, almost always have been and will be). Solar tends to be less fungible, but SREC's, bundling of leases, centralized solar power production and other means of making it more malleable will probably make it more fungible - some would call those things attempts to control solar power. There may be some nefarious plot to screw all of us or not. either way, it's just business. If anyone thinks they're being screwed by the system, they always have the option to use less, interact with the system less and in their eyes at least, give the system less opportunity to screw them. Most sheeple complain and do nothing of a productive nature. My apologies to those of us who are not sheeple.

[bcroe]

Sunpower's good stuff but is very expensive for what you get. Pay your money - take your choice.

I am starting to realize one of its advantages: energy from the sun isn't subject to "market" price swings.

Recently we have had a huge increase in domestic energy production, prices should be dropping.
Not to allow that, the "powers" start exporting as much as possible. When we are in the middle
of the coldest winter I have ever experienced here, depending on energy, "they" declare a
"SHORTAGE" and make huge price increases. Propane from $1.49 to over $5, but fortunately
with solar, I didn't have to buy any.
Bruce Roe

[J.P.M.]

Your solar is almost like a mirror image of mine, they have very similar output before 5 pm. (April 16 result)

Silver Stomp

7am 0.31 0.2
8am 0.94 0.71
9am 1.97 1.91
10am 3.29 3.41
11am 4.32 4.44
12pm 5.01 5.10
1pm 5.35 5.42
2pm 5.41 5.44
3pm 5.16 5.08
4pm 4.54 4.23
5pm 3.17 1.76
6pm 0.57 0.94
7pm 0 0.05

total 40.07 38.68


Stomp's SP225W X 30 @ 6.75kW with SP6000M inverter facing SW 220 deg and Silver's Bosch 255W X 26 @ 6.63kW SMA6000TL-US inverter facing SW 245 deg. Stomp has shading from a palm tree after 5pm and Silver has tree shading after 5:30pm and completed shade from hills after 6pm.

Which, I think, tends to support the observation I and others have made that well installed systems of the same size location and orientation will produce about the same output under the same conditions, regardless of manufacturer - Sunpower, Bosch, LG, Solarworld, etc. etc.

Sunpower's good stuff but is very expensive for what you get. Pay your money - take your choice.

[silversaver]

That is too funny...I compare mine to a virtually identical system to mine that I found in Oceanside - IIRC he had his for one or two years prior to me getting mine.

https://www.sunpowermonitor.com/residential/kiosk.aspx?id=3BFB36CD-E451-4CB8-B94D-57F0970C9D6F&type=address

Here is a link to his page detailing his system, etc. Just another datapoint, and one closer to SD and the coast for anybody interested.

http://www.jjhamilton.com/solar/

Your solar is almost like a mirror image of mine, they have very similar output before 5 pm. (April 16 result)

Silver Stomp

7am 0.31 0.2
8am 0.94 0.71
9am 1.97 1.91
10am 3.29 3.41
11am 4.32 4.44
12pm 5.01 5.10
1pm 5.35 5.42
2pm 5.41 5.44
3pm 5.16 5.08
4pm 4.54 4.23
5pm 3.17 1.76
6pm 0.57 0.94
7pm 0 0.05

total 40.07 38.68


Stomp's SP225W X 30 @ 6.75kW with SP6000M inverter facing SW 220 deg and Silver's Bosch 255W X 26 @ 6.63kW SMA6000TL-US inverter facing SW 245 deg. Stomp has shading from a palm tree after 5pm and Silver has tree shading after 5:30pm and completed shade from hills after 6pm.

[silversaver]

Mathematically speaking, if you're at net zero metering each month, you want to be on the basic plan and not any kind of TOU plan. That's because the price of the energy doesn't matter anymore. It can be $0.10/kwh or $10/kwh, it will never affect you. By definition, the only reason you want to go with the TOU plan is because the price of energy depending on the time of use matters to you. With net zero metering each month, you won't have this problem in the first place.

If I add an EV then it will not be enough...... Good thing that net metering is base on annually instead on monthly approach.

[Volusiano]

My solar will cover 100% of my usage, so I am in no hurry since the EV isn't ready yet. I did make a spreadsheet, but my last 3 years' usages were all different..... thats what happen when you have a young and growing family haha

Mathematically speaking, if you're at net zero metering each month, you want to be on the basic plan and not any kind of TOU plan. That's because the price of the energy doesn't matter anymore. It can be $0.10/kwh or $10/kwh, it will never affect you. By definition, the only reason you want to go with the TOU plan is because the price of energy depending on the time of use matters to you. With net zero metering each month, you won't have this problem in the first place.

[silversaver]

Just crank your numbers through a spreadsheet and hopefully that'll help you make a decision.

My solar will cover 100% of my usage, so I am in no hurry since the EV isn't ready yet. I did make a spreadsheet, but my last 3 years' usages were all different..... thats what happen when you have a young and growing family haha

[Volusiano]

Thanks for the link. My system is pretty much as yours except little higher because you have afternoon shading. I'm still wondering if I should go with TOU or stays in regular net metering.

Just crank your numbers through a spreadsheet and hopefully that'll help you make a decision.