SCE forcing me off TOU-D-A

[Ampster]

..... The question is: how does SCE calculate the balance on account?

.......

My SCE bills give me a running total. The calculation is the same at True Up as you have been seeing on TOU. If you have been a net exporter you will get a refund based on about $0.04 per KWh. In your case I believe you are correct it will be the balance owing at True Up which should be accumulated and shown on your statement each month.
Did that answer your question?

[jasonvr]

Hi,

I am wondering what percentage your solar system cover you annual usage? My solar cover about 80% of my usage.

Thanks

It varies based on the year of course, but last year my generation covered 84.5% of my usage

[jasonvr]

I am on NEM 1.0 and I do understand how tier works. Been on TOU-D-A for many years everything seems need a refreshment. The Tier Plan has baseline, 101%-400% as Tier 2 and over 400% as High Usage. My concern is more on hitting the Tier 2 and high usage. In general with my 7kW system during March to June, I might only bank 200-450kWh each month, but during rest of the year I might withdraw from 100kWh to 1000kWh after solar. The question is: how does SCE calculate the balance on account?

It seems reasonable to have 1kWh generate vs 1kWh consumed, but your generation will base on on Tier 1 and little of Tier 2. BUT your consumption usage might be base on Tier 2 or High Usage rate. That is the "part" I do not understand since there is no information about it.

I do believe it will be base on "balance" instead of net usage per kWh as many of you thinks. The 2020 usage is crazy high for us and we have replace new AC unit this year that seems to lower the usage quiet a bit + this year weren't as hot as last year.

I agree there is pretty poor information on how tiered will work with solar, particularly for things like over production and net production when you've already entered a tier beyond baseline.

As an example, let's just say your baseline is 100kWh for the month (no zone is actually this low, I know). And let's say your net consumption is 99kWh. I supposed that means that you get charged for the month for 99kWh at the baseline rate. But what happens when you net consumption gets to 101kWh. Presumably that 1kWh is charged at the next tier, but what about over generation at that point. Are you also compensated at the next tier rate?

Also, technically the baseline allocations are per day, not per month, and certainly not per billing month which may not align with calendar month which determines allocation.

And then there is even the overproduction case where your net consumption for the month is negative. Is the net cost based on the first tier, or are there negative tiers as well (i.e. if you generate -120% of your baseline do you get compensated as a negative tier 2 amount for 20% of that?)

I'd love for it to be as simple as SCE looking at your net consumption for the month vs the aggregated baseline allocation for the same period, but I really don't know if that is how it works.

[silversaver]

Thanks guys for the update. I guess no matter how SCE calculates the over production, it is better than 8 cents credit on TOU plan. The last 7 almost 8 years were the golden age with SCE since solar 2013.

BTW, the reason that I said I do not understand how SCE calculate the credit is because of using their Rate Plan Comparison Tool. Base on reading they only credit you 8 cents per kWh over production per TOU plan, but I see very similar credit in both TOU and Tier plans. I wonder why.

Can someone in the new TOUD-4-9 or TOU-D-Prime explain how SCE credit you on the power feed back to the grid?



difference.png

[mmhendrie]

I'm a NEMA 1.0, originally began as a net producer, but after adding AC to my home became a net consumer. With my west facing panels and timed charging of my EV, I've been able to effectively use TOU-D-A and have substantial electric credits - of course, they cashed out to very little, but still, I paid nothing for electricity. As with you all, all the proposed plans from SCE just offer me options of "how much more do you want to pay....200% more, how about 300% more?" - really, there should be some controls that new rate plans can only have a max. % increase in cost. I can't think of a vendor in a non-monopoly environment that would even attempt the same. SCE is clearly drawing a circle around solar users, and going after us. Personally, I've always found them very difficult to deal with regarding solar - it took a complaint to the CPUC to get them to turn on my system after 5 months or me pressing them.

Anyhow, I think like most on this thread, I am seeing the option to move to the standard domestic rate tiers as the best way forward for me. My net consumption is probably going to be relatively low, and while I'd prefer not to pay anything, as I have been doing, obviously, there's no longer an option that would facilitate that. My concern with the domestic rate tiers is as follows....

My base allowance is 10kwh/ per day, so 3650kwh for the year. I will fall well under that amount in terms of consumption, so, initially i thought everything I consume would therefore be billed at the $0.26 lower rate. But, after thinking some more, I'm really not sure that will be that case. More so, as the allowance is stated as a daily rate, if we say today as a hypothetical example, and say I have relatively low generation, but high usage, so that I generate 6kwh, but use 20kwh, that's a net consumption of 14kwh, of which I assume 10kwh would be at the $0.26 rate, and the 4kwh would be at the $0.33 rate. Repeated over several low production fall/winter months, this could account for a sizable billing increase. What are people's thoughts on this? Am I understanding the billing correctly?
thanks!

[silversaver]

I use the Rate Plan Comparison Tool at SCE.com switching to Tier Plan, it only took few days and it shows Domestic Tier Plan now. By using the "View Usage" function, I can check last 12 months daily usage. I am checking if under any given day I'll go over 400% to high usage, but all under 400%. We do not have the same heat as last year, so far so good since I only withdraw few hundred kWh from SCE in 2021 since I cut off the lots usage of EV and new AC unit. In general IMHO NEM 1.0 owners will probably better off stay at Tier Plan as the new TOU-D-Prime unless you have more than one EV or high usage on electricity.

[oldguy]

Probably my last post here on this thread (I have 2 or 3 above). I just got off the phone (again) with SCE as I had been told that I would be receiving a letter confirming my PTO (Sept 2017) + 5 would give me an extra 9 months (I'm NEM 2.0) until my "transition" (roughly translates to BOHICA!). The 'lead" at SCE told me on the Oct 20th call that I would receive a letter confirming that. I figured 20 days would be enough (today) so started calling again. I had gone TOU-D-A 2 years prior to solar install and that's what they sited today as my start time for TOU. I guess going solar was a mistake on my part as I won't have the equipment paid off, I can't go back to tiered, and my estimate on the 3 plans available are similar to post #49. My SCE bill before going solar was down from $250/mo to about $100/mo (utilizing LED lighting, TOU, etc). Now my bill will go back to what it was if not more as I can't go back to tiered.

Thank you SCE for letting me install some of your generation capabilities. Big Guys win again. I think anyone that is installing solar now is just a sucker...and will also allow for further rate changes to screw us even more. Count on it...

[Mike90250]

Thank our governor for allowing alternative energy die on the vine. Only because of large corporation lobbies by utilities, are these changes coming .

[jasonvr]

I use the Rate Plan Comparison Tool at SCE.com switching to Tier Plan, it only took few days and it shows Domestic Tier Plan now. By using the "View Usage" function, I can check last 12 months daily usage. I am checking if under any given day I'll go over 400% to high usage, but all under 400%. We do not have the same heat as last year, so far so good since I only withdraw few hundred kWh from SCE in 2021 since I cut off the lots usage of EV and new AC unit. In general IMHO NEM 1.0 owners will probably better off stay at Tier Plan as the new TOU-D-Prime unless you have more than one EV or high usage on electricity.

Must be nice to have the tool actually work for you

Mine still either gives me an error or just refreshes back to the same page

[silversaver]

Must be nice to have the tool actually work for you

Mine still either gives me an error or just refreshes back to the same page

Once you made the switch of plan, you will no long be able to using the comparison tool ( I don't think it is useful, but just use it to change plan) There is a note there: Note: Your service account must have 5 months of continuous energy usage.


I would rather use the view usage function to check my usage for last 12 months. All I need is the total of last 12 months how much energy I withdraw from SCE and any given day I might run over 400% to high usage rate.

usage.jpg

[OftheSeven]

For those who switched from TOU-D-A to tiered with EVs, did you find it advantageous to continue charging at night (off peak) or during the day during solar production?

Since the production credits aren't that great, I'm thinking using electricity during production may be a good option.

[Ward L]

I agree, OftheSeven, it may be to your advantage to charge during the day when your panels are generating excess power. I've been meaning to call SCE to determine what my max export power is. If you don't get credit for extra solar power generation, then might as well charge up the EV. The problem is most people are out driving their EV during the day or want a full charge in the morning in case something comes up.

[silversaver]

For those who switched from TOU-D-A to tiered with EVs, did you find it advantageous to continue charging at night (off peak) or during the day during solar production?

Since the production credits aren't that great, I'm thinking using electricity during production may be a good option.

I just switch from TOU-D-A to Tier. So far I don't see any advantage to charge your EV during the night since it is base on tier of usage. Tier 1 I believe is up to 350kWh, Tier 2 from 351kWh to 1399kWh and High Tier 1400kWh and up. I am not sure how SCE credit on generation part perhaps same as what they charge you, but I do not believe they are doing it on daily basis. I am already 8 years into solar and I am not going to expand the system that is already 8yrs old. The new plans from SCE will benefit for those who install the battery system, but I am not sure what are the real saving of battery system unless your are high user charges EVs during the off peak time since price per gallon has gone up to its peak again. Back in the days were a 80% coverage system is really needed, I'll go as large as I can today.

[jasonvr]

Came back here to report that SCE did keep to their word and I stayed on TOU-D-A thru December 29 at which point I transitioned to Tiered Rate D. It must have really thrown their system for a loop though because I didn't get a bill for a full 2 months (got one on 12/1 and didn't get another until 2/3). And of course, SCE is already reaping the benefits. According to my spreadsheet, January would have only accumulated ~$26 of energy charges under TOU-D-A, but instead accumulated ~$81 under Rate D. I've made adjustments to my variable speed pool pump schedule to further drive down my electricity usage. By about mid-February I'll start over-producing per day and drive my yearly total energy charges back negative before my true up at the end of June. Then we'll see what a full year of Rate D looks like since I got 6 months of TOU-D-A benefit in this true up period. I will still be a net consumer (currently at a net consumption of ~2.3MWh since the start of my relevant period)

I was less than a year out from payoff on TOU-D-A based on my avoided costs compared to Tiered without solar, not sure yet how much this will extend out my overall payoff.

[silversaver]

Came back here to report that SCE did keep to their word and I stayed on TOU-D-A thru December 29 at which point I transitioned to Tiered Rate D. It must have really thrown their system for a loop though because I didn't get a bill for a full 2 months (got one on 12/1 and didn't get another until 2/3). And of course, SCE is already reaping the benefits. According to my spreadsheet, January would have only accumulated ~$26 of energy charges under TOU-D-A, but instead accumulated ~$81 under Rate D. I've made adjustments to my variable speed pool pump schedule to further drive down my electricity usage. By about mid-February I'll start over-producing per day and drive my yearly total energy charges back negative before my true up at the end of June. Then we'll see what a full year of Rate D looks like since I got 6 months of TOU-D-A benefit in this true up period. I will still be a net consumer (currently at a net consumption of ~2.3MWh since the start of my relevant period)

I was less than a year out from payoff on TOU-D-A based on my avoided costs compared to Tiered without solar, not sure yet how much this will extend out my overall payoff.

I do use 2 main data: solar annual production vs SCE usage after your net 12 months. Since I drive less distance to work now and I am only withdraw 1k kwh from SCE after my net 12 months bill. Without the EV, my solar still cover 100% usage (2021 were not hot as 2020). You just need to collect as much data you can. I know my EV's eMPG (or miles per kWh). Driving EV isn't that same as before anymore. Your cost will be now $0.26 depends on your solar size, but mostly in $0.34 per kWh range. Too bad SCE only allow 100% coverage when start a new solar.

Good news is your TOD-D-A credit will be in your account until your 12 months end after your switch to Tier plan.