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Coming Soon to NJ - 12.35 kW Hanwha DUO-G5 + SolarEdge Inverter/Optimizers by GPE

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  • #46
    Originally posted by NJturtlePower View Post

    Hey Butch just looking back at some of your original comments here and I think I misinterpreted the part about the "internal" revenue grade meter.

    I was thinking internal as in mounting location vs external, but I realize you were talking about eliminating the separate revenue grade meter in favor of the built in option direct from SolarEdge.

    Could you help me out with a part number for a built in RGM for my proposed SE11400 unit?
    The SE11400H-US000BNC4 is the SE11400H with RGM (Revenue Grade Meter) included


    Originally posted by NJturtlePower View Post
    Overall this should actually be cheaper than a separate unit considering labor correct? Not expecting to get any reduction from my installer but at least have the simplified cleaner install.

    Anybody that has used GPE go this route before I inquire? I'm sure most installers prefer to do things the way they are used to and comfortable with, but this would be best for both of us it seems.
    It is about $175 more than the regular SetApp inverter.
    It also has automatic reporting so no need to manual read and send in photos of a meter.
    OutBack FP1 w/ CS6P-250P http://bit.ly/1Sg5VNH

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    • #47
      So on to the subject of SE inverter connectivity..... I had read or watched some YouTube video noting the differences in data transmission/sampling between the cellular card options which is included with my system vs the built-in Ethernet port I was planning to run a line to.

      Video of Ethernet Install/Setup:



      Sure enough, I found confirmation of all the details in the SE Communication Options install guide screenshot below.

      SE Ethernet vs Cellular.jpg

      The Ethernet connection will give you ::EDIT:: consistent 5-minute data intervals vs the low or high bandwidth cellular which is at BEST sampled every 5-minutes dependant on your plan. Cellular could be an OK backup I guess in case there was a serious internet disruption, but otherwise not worth the service plan cost in areas with solid high-speed internet.

      Required Equipment : CAT5 or CAT6 Ethernet cable with RJ45 connectors. Max distance: 100 meters / 300 ft.
      Last edited by NJturtlePower; 06-06-2019, 02:28 PM.
      https://pvoutput.org/list.jsp?sid=67749

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      • #48
        Originally posted by NJturtlePower View Post

        The Ethernet connection will give you constant real-time data vs the low or high bandwidth cellular which is at best sampled every 5-minutes.
        With an ethernet connection it is NOT real time but sampled every 5 minutes.
        OutBack FP1 w/ CS6P-250P http://bit.ly/1Sg5VNH

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        • #49
          Originally posted by ButchDeal View Post

          With an ethernet connection it is NOT real time but sampled every 5 minutes.
          OK then....I'm sure your response is based on actual data review...but not sure why SE would leave that detail out of the install guide after listing it specifically for cellular.

          Either way, I'm going Ethernet as it's a quick 10-15ft pull from my router modem directly above and undoubtedly more consistent/stable.
          https://pvoutput.org/list.jsp?sid=67749

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          • #50
            Originally posted by ButchDeal View Post

            With an ethernet connection it is NOT real time but sampled every 5 minutes.
            I guess it depends on your definition of "real time"...

            Using Ethernet and looking at the SolarEdge App or Monitoring website, I can see my instant Production and Consumption meaning that if I turn on a hair drier, I see the actual kWh consumption value within 1-2 seconds . Similar if a cloud passes over, I see my production drop within 1-2 seconds.So both of these values update every 1-2 seconds to show what the meter is sensing. When I had it setup using Cellular, I was not able to see any of this, only updates every 4 hours.

            When looking at the graphs, that information is shown in 15 minutes intervals.
            When looking at the API data in PVOutput, I see production information in 5 minutes intervals and consumption information in 15 minute intervals.
            https://pvoutput.org/list.jsp?userid=59404

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            • #51
              Originally posted by NJturtlePower View Post

              OK then....I'm sure your response is based on actual data review...but not sure why SE would leave that detail out of the install guide after listing it specifically for cellular.

              Either way, I'm going Ethernet as it's a quick 10-15ft pull from my router modem directly above and undoubtedly more consistent/stable.
              Also the Cellular document you were looking at is old. The current one is the GSM document (though same info on sampling rate).

              My response is given based on the documentation on the inverter, experience with the monitoring, etc.
              The optimizers sample and report ever 5 minutes. In low speed mode they average that to 15 minute, but with everything else they report the 5 minute data.
              There are other threads about the data reporting where I have shown graphs with 5 minute data for the questioning type :

              https://www.solarpaneltalk.com/forum...dge-monitoring
              OutBack FP1 w/ CS6P-250P http://bit.ly/1Sg5VNH

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by macaddict View Post

                I guess it depends on your definition of "real time"...

                Using Ethernet and looking at the SolarEdge App or Monitoring website, I can see my instant Production and Consumption meaning that if I turn on a hair drier, I see the actual kWh consumption value within 1-2 seconds . Similar if a cloud passes over, I see my production drop within 1-2 seconds.So both of these values update every 1-2 seconds to show what the meter is sensing. When I had it setup using Cellular, I was not able to see any of this, only updates every 4 hours.

                When looking at the graphs, that information is shown in 15 minutes intervals.
                When looking at the API data in PVOutput, I see production information in 5 minutes intervals and consumption information in 15 minute intervals.
                well as I have a CS background 1-2 seconds is pretty far from real time..
                You are talking about production value which gets updated more often but more detailed measurements which OP was talking about are taken every 5 minutes (ALL PV module data for example), which is from the page OP posted about talking about sampled 5 minutes VS 15 minutes ....

                As for the solaredge graphs, it depends on which graphs you are looking at. see my other post about 5 minute graphs on SolarEdge monitoring..
                OutBack FP1 w/ CS6P-250P http://bit.ly/1Sg5VNH

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                • #53
                  So how did the roof install go? sunpoweredev

                  My roofing supplies are being delivered Monday, dumpster on Tuesday and install Wedns. or Thurs. depending on the weather.

                  Damien sent me a site map screenshot with placement of the supplies and dumpster today to confirm. Getting excited!
                  https://pvoutput.org/list.jsp?sid=67749

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                  • #54
                    NJturtlePower the materials and dumpsters were delivered on Tuesday, and the crew arrived yesterday ~8:30am and done by ~7pm. I hope they haul away the dumpster today as my mailman skipped my mailbox since Tuesday. Damien has been great to work with. Very responsive to my questions.

                    The crew (of 6) was great. Not much interaction with them, but I did tip them prior to them getting up on the roof, in case I step out and miss them, and also maybe then they'll give me their best work They were quite thorough in setting up protection around the house and my AC units outside, as was with the cleanup after. I walked my driveway multiple times after they left and found one single nail (it would suck badly getting a flat in the Tesla lol), which I thought was quite impressive given that thousands of nails must've been pulled out. The only damage I spotted so far was a corner of the gutter which was torn a bit. I pointed it out and next thing I knew it was already fixed, didn't even see them do it. Plus a block was knocked out from my paver steps (probably from them removing and dropping the attic fan), they offered to fix it but only had silicone. I told them I'll get the proper adhesive and fix it myself.

                    As part of the roofing job they removed the powered attic fan and 3 of those square static vents, and installed ridge vents in four areas. I took a peak up in the attic after they cut the slits off from the ridges, and it was definitely a lot less suffocating than it would've been in the middle of a sun drenched afternoon, as well upstairs in the interior. That was before they capped it off with the ridge vent though, so it remains to be seen how effective it really is especially on a super hot and humid day but I am optimistic that it'll be far more effective than a single powered attic fan.

                    They left with 10 bundles of unused shingles. Damien was quite responsive in telling me no to getting credited for it lol.

                    Attached Files
                    https://pvoutput.org/list.jsp?sid=69875

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      BTW, my GPE rep said no to the internal revenue meter. They seem very resistant to any changes from their default configuration. Would've been great as ButchDeal mentioned that it has automatic reporting.

                      From the video you posted above, I really do wish I'll end up with the inverter with the display. It's great to be able to configure it and see stats right on the unit itself. If I do end up getting the screened version, I'll likely have it in the garage, and if possible everything else (revenue meter, etc) outside.
                      https://pvoutput.org/list.jsp?sid=69875

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by sunpoweredev View Post
                        NJturtlePower the materials and dumpsters were delivered on Tuesday, and the crew arrived yesterday ~8:30am and done by ~7pm. I hope they haul away the dumpster today as my mailman skipped my mailbox since Tuesday. Damien has been great to work with. Very responsive to my questions.

                        The crew (of 6) was great. Not much interaction with them, but I did tip them prior to them getting up on the roof, in case I step out and miss them, and also maybe then they'll give me their best work They were quite thorough in setting up protection around the house and my AC units outside, as was with the cleanup after. I walked my driveway multiple times after they left and found one single nail (it would suck badly getting a flat in the Tesla lol), which I thought was quite impressive given that thousands of nails must've been pulled out. The only damage I spotted so far was a corner of the gutter which was torn a bit. I pointed it out and next thing I knew it was already fixed, didn't even see them do it. Plus a block was knocked out from my paver steps (probably from them removing and dropping the attic fan), they offered to fix it but only had silicone. I told them I'll get the proper adhesive and fix it myself.

                        As part of the roofing job they removed the powered attic fan and 3 of those square static vents, and installed ridge vents in four areas. I took a peak up in the attic after they cut the slits off from the ridges, and it was definitely a lot less suffocating than it would've been in the middle of a sun drenched afternoon, as well upstairs in the interior. That was before they capped it off with the ridge vent though, so it remains to be seen how effective it really is especially on a super hot and humid day but I am optimistic that it'll be far more effective than a single powered attic fan.

                        They left with 10 bundles of unused shingles. Damien was quite responsive in telling me no to getting credited for it lol.
                        Looks like a productive day and some quality work! Did they need to replace much wood sheathing? Interested to see what the decking is like under my shotty 2 layer reroof the previous owner can take credit for.

                        My roof is a little challenging with two barn style almost vertical walls on the two-story side so I'm also interested how they handle that.

                        I'm nervous about all the nails and tarping on my back deck. I just spent hours powerwashing it recently AND built/installed a full new lounge patio set, so hoping they can redirect the trash slide off to the side in that area.

                        I currently have two attic fans with old fashioned mushroom vent tops, one on each roof section, and Damien mentioned the same plan as he did with yours. They will cap off the electric, cover the holes and cut the ridge venting in all roof peaks. I'm going to try and get some temp reading over the weekend maybe to spot check cooling they claim will be better, but in the end it' is what it is I guess, they're the experts. I'm also having my one and only skylight replaced and slightly oversized (30" X 30") rather than going custom to match the roughly 25" X 25" that is in place. It's an original manual pop up/crank open unit going on 38+ years, gas seal is shot (as shown) and will be replaced with a lower profile fixed unit.

                        Some pictures of the roof BEFORE the pending work after our recent chimney rebuild attached.
                        Attached Files
                        Last edited by NJturtlePower; 06-07-2019, 11:03 AM.
                        https://pvoutput.org/list.jsp?sid=67749

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by sunpoweredev View Post
                          BTW, my GPE rep said no to the internal revenue meter. They seem very resistant to any changes from their default configuration. Would've been great as ButchDeal mentioned that it has automatic reporting.

                          From the video you posted above, I really do wish I'll end up with the inverter with the display. It's great to be able to configure it and see stats right on the unit itself. If I do end up getting the screened version, I'll likely have it in the garage, and if possible everything else (revenue meter, etc) outside.
                          I was in a back and forth a couple times with Mike S. VP of Operations at GPE about the RGM inverter option yesterday...... I told them why I wanted it, that I was consulting other owners/forum who HIGHLY recommend it, what the benifits were to me and kinda put up some resistance to his initial response which was, "I wanted to chime- in on the RGM inverter. Right now they are shipping 10kw , 6kw and i believe 5kw B series inverters. If the 11.4 becomes available we will certainly provide it for your install. In my experience of an inverter failing, sometimes all data in that inverter can be lost. Let's say an error along the lines of a thermal event for example. The information saved on the inverter may not be able to be pulled from the old to enter into the replacement. This is why we like to install a simple RGM SREC meter with every install (digital read out) The odds of the meter failing are almost non existent. It is also a great way to confirm production at a quick glance, not the only way but certainly helpful."

                          I wasn't really convinced by this so I persisted and questioned what data is lot if the whole thing goes down and is networked prior etc. and his next response was, "It is not my intention to talk you out of the RGM screenless inverter if available. If it is available you we certainly provide that to you. I am more hoping to get you to install the SREC meter as a fail-safe if nothing else from this convo. It is always better to be safe than sorry. I have seen some inverters fail and i am trying to avoid future complications with reporting your SREC generation to the state."

                          So in the end he left it at, "We will do our best to obtain the RGM inverter."

                          So now I'm playing with the idea again of adding the $800 consumption meter as an add-on and plan to go forward with it ONLY IF they can confirm the RGP inverter availability before our install week. We'll see how this plays out but I'm not giving up yet.
                          Last edited by NJturtlePower; 06-07-2019, 10:09 AM. Reason: Typos Corrected
                          https://pvoutput.org/list.jsp?sid=67749

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by NJturtlePower View Post

                            I was in a back and forth a couple times with Mike S. VP of Operations at GPE about the RGM inverter option yesterday...... I told them why I wanted it, that I was consulting other owners/forum who HIGHLY recommend it, what the benifits were to me and kinda put up some resistance to his initial response which was, "I wanted to chime- in on the RGM inverter. Right now they are shipping 10kw , 6kw and i believe 5kw B series inverters. If the 11.4 becomes available we will certainly provide it for your install. In my experience of an inverter failing, sometimes all data in that inverter can be lost. Let's say an error along the lines of a thermal event for example. The information saved on the inverter may not be able to be pulled from the old to enter into the replacement. This is why we like to install a simple RGM SREC meter with every install (digital read out) The odds of the meter failing are almost non existent. It is also a great way to confirm production at a quick glance, not the only way but certainly helpful."

                            I wasn't really convinced by this so I persisted and questioned what data is lot if the whole thing goes down and is networked prior etc. and his next response was, "It is not my intention to talk you out of the RGM screenless inverter if available. If it is available you we certainly provide that to you. I am more hoping to get you to install the SREC meter as a fail-safe if nothing else from this convo. It is always better to be safe than sorry. I have seen some inverters fail and i am trying to avoid future complications with reporting your SREC generation to the state."

                            So in the end he left it at, "We will do our best to obtain the RGM inverter."

                            So now I'm playing with the idea again of adding the $800 consumption meter as an add-on and plan to go forward with it ONLY IF they can confirm the RGP inverter availability before our install week. We'll see how this plays out but I'm not giving up yet.
                            the RGM inverter is definitely available in ALL sizes and can be purchased from most distributors including Allied, and Soligent. They some times take a few extra days to get depending on the distributor and inventory. I don't know why ALL installers in SREC states don't use them by default though.

                            The production meter is an add on and can be installed with any inverter as it is a separate line item.
                            The inverter failing is a silly argument as all the recording solutions have procedures to replace ANY meter, you get a final reading, then put in the new meter. The online recording ones will almost always have the final reading already pushed but even that can be manually done.
                            OutBack FP1 w/ CS6P-250P http://bit.ly/1Sg5VNH

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by ButchDeal View Post

                              the RGM inverter is definitely available in ALL sizes and can be purchased from most distributors including Allied, and Soligent. They some times take a few extra days to get depending on the distributor and inventory. I don't know why ALL installers in SREC states don't use them by default though.

                              The production meter is an add on and can be installed with any inverter as it is a separate line item.
                              The inverter failing is a silly argument as all the recording solutions have procedures to replace ANY meter, you get a final reading, then put in the new meter. The online recording ones will almost always have the final reading already pushed but even that can be manually done.
                              I figured as much (on all points you made), and in one of my replies said, "please put in an early request/order to the supplier for the RGM inverter being that we have a couple weeks until install", as a hint hint, get on it.

                              I'll bug them again next week if I don't hear anything sooner. Thanks for confirmation.
                              https://pvoutput.org/list.jsp?sid=67749

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                              • #60
                                I did ask GPE about the RGM option, briefly, back in 2017. At that time they said that I needed to have a physically separate revenue meter for SREC' -- I didn't know any better. I just agreed and didn't press the issue. GPE seems to prefer this approach (separate, external meter) and they use it on all of their installs.

                                I suggest you call or email the folks at GATS to confirm that they'll accept the data from the SE RGM option.
                                https://www.pjm-eis.com/

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