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  • SDG&E Rates Update

    It is a month old, but SDG&E's quarterly rate reform update just came through email distribution for me today. It is a nice summary of what is coming down the pipe in the next 18 months, publicly available but there will still be plenty of shock and outrage at the beginning of next year.

    It still sort of surprises me that there are fewer than 10k customers on EV-TOU2 and DR-SES combined, given how favorable current TOU plans are for solar.

    Also, in a separate filing, some more specific information is available on projected rates through 2019, as GRC Phase 2 takes effect. Below are snips of the plans that seem to be relevant to most around here. The TOU plans need to be considered against the new TOU periods, discussed in this thread. In the post below this (because I hit the attachment limit) are also rates associated with a new EV plan, EV-TOU-5 which looks like it could be released mid 2018. It is the first I've come across it, and am not sure what hours or conditions are associated with it, but the ultra low super off-peak price caught my attention, along with the $16 / mo fixed charge (*not* a minimum bill, as other plans have).

    Of course, this is all subject to change, but is what I would consider to be a good place to start for anyone who is trying to model their electric bill and the potential impact of solar over the next couple years. I don't think any of these include the "revenue recovery" increases that occur on top of the price structure, and these are based on 8/2016 rates as a starting point. There have definitely been some RR increases since then.



    Tiered plan DR, Release 1 (Dec 2017) DR R1.JPG







    Tiered plan DR, Release 2 (July 2018) DR R2.JPG






    Tiered plan DR, Final release (Jan 2019) DR R2019.JPG








    DR-SES, Release 1 (Dec 2017) DR-SES R1.JPG







    DR-SES Release 2 (July 2018) DR-SES R2.JPG






    DR-SES Final release (Jan 2019) DR-SES R2019.JPG








    EV-TOU rates, Release 1 (Dec 2017) EV-TOU R1.JPG






    EV-TOU rates, Release 2 (July 2018) EV-TOU R2.JPG






    EV-TOU rates, final release (Jan 2019) EV-TOU R2019.JPG

    Last edited by sensij; 06-23-2017, 03:04 PM.
    CS6P-260P/SE3000 - http://tiny.cc/ed5ozx

  • #2

    New EV-TOU-5, Release 2 (July 2018)
    EV-TOU 5 R2.JPG


    New EV-TOU-5, Final release (Jan 2019)

    EV-TOU 5 R2019.JPG
    CS6P-260P/SE3000 - http://tiny.cc/ed5ozx

    Comment


    • #3
      Looks like the proposed rates for tiered are going up some from current levels, but the proposed DR-SES rates seem to be less than current rates.

      As for how few customers are on T.O.U.: Doesn't surprise me one bit. First off, most folks I speak with are unaware that T.O.U. even exists much less that it may save them money. Second, those I speak with who do know of T.O.U.'s existence are usually not well versed or don't care, but in most cases are reluctant to change to what they do not understand much less trust, or third, if they understand it, may well be oversized and won't benefit at this time from switching to T.O.U.

      One other reason, at least for savvy users to stand pat on tiered rates is the knowledge of the perhaps quite likely change/shifting in the times of T.O.U. peak hours in the future. If summer peak changes, currently from 11 A.M. - 6 P.M. weekdays, change to 4 P.M.- 9 P.M. weekdays as is blowing in the wind, it'll pretty much knock the crap out of the ability to game T.O.U. to reduce the size of an array and still achieve the same $$ reduction in an electric bill. Might even be disadvantageous to get off tiered rates if such time changes occur. There also doesn't seem to be much that anyone wants to do to make the public aware that the time shifting can gut a lot of T.O.U./net metering bill reduction ability.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by J.P.M. View Post
        One other reason, at least for savvy users to stand pat on tiered rates is the knowledge of the perhaps quite likely change/shifting in the times of T.O.U. peak hours in the future. If summer peak changes, currently from 11 A.M. - 6 P.M. weekdays, change to 4 P.M.- 9 P.M. weekdays as is blowing in the wind, it'll pretty much knock the crap out of the ability to game T.O.U. to reduce the size of an array and still achieve the same $$ reduction in an electric bill. Might even be disadvantageous to get off tiered rates if such time changes occur.
        The caveat to this is that if you get on a TOU plan with good TOU time periods now, those periods will be protected for 5 years. It would take some work to figure out if a smaller array with good TOU for 5 years before shifting to prevailing TOU is a better deal than an equivalent or larger system locked into the tiered plan for 20 years, and in no small part affected by the time horizon chosen over which to evaluate.
        CS6P-260P/SE3000 - http://tiny.cc/ed5ozx

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by sensij View Post

          The caveat to this is that if you get on a TOU plan with good TOU time periods now, those periods will be protected for 5 years. It would take some work to figure out if a smaller array with good TOU for 5 years before shifting to prevailing TOU is a better deal than an equivalent or larger system locked into the tiered plan for 20 years, and in no small part affected by the time horizon chosen over which to evaluate.
          Agreed. But while not trying to be argumentative, how many users do you think would understand what you just wrote ?

          Between the ignorance and the apathy is where my lack of surprise at the lack of acceptance for T.O.U. comes from. Most are clueless of options or the consequences of any particular choice. Sort of the devil you know vs. the one you don't even know exists and probably wouldn't like any better if you did know about the options.

          Comment


          • #6
            Somewhat related to this topic: http://www.latimes.com/projects/la-f...tricity-solar/

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by J.P.M. View Post

              Agreed. But while not trying to be argumentative, how many users do you think would understand what you just wrote ?
              I'm probably an outlier, but I understood the TOU benefit of the current 11 am to 6 pm. If I'm not wrong, those of us on NEM 2.0 (i.e. me) automatically have to go to TOU in 2019. And from my understanding, you need to be on the current TOU time periods by either July 1 or July 31 to be eligible for the 5 year grandfathering of the current time periods. Hence, I switched to TOU now,
              8.6 kWp roof (SE 7600 and 28 panels)

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by CharlieEscCA View Post

                I'm probably an outlier, but I understood the TOU benefit of the current 11 am to 6 pm. If I'm not wrong, those of us on NEM 2.0 (i.e. me) automatically have to go to TOU in 2019. And from my understanding, you need to be on the current TOU time periods by either July 1 or July 31 to be eligible for the 5 year grandfathering of the current time periods. Hence, I switched to TOU now,
                No, NEM-ST customers will not be forced to switch in 2019.

                If you take service within 120 days of the GRC 2 effective date, you have the option to take the tiered rate. I'm not sure whether the 120 days will count from when GRC 2 is approved (very soon), or when the first rate change as a result of GRC 2 hits (December), but either way, you would still have at least 4 months.

                The 5 year grandfathering of rate plans and TOU periods is for anyone who is on a TOU rate before the GRC 2 changes take effect. Those GRC 2 changes include the new TOU hours. If you are a new NEM-ST customer this year, that means 2022 is when the switch will be forced. I agree that getting in now is good if you think TOU will help, instead of waiting to see how the transition period is handled between CPUC approval and when actual period changes come through. I don't know how the grandfathering will work... will they rename the rate plan, which seems unlikely given that they are still using the same rate plan name for the future projections? Somehow keep track of the few thousand customers on each TOU plan now that will get the grandfathered hours for 5 years?


                Residential eligible customer-generators and qualified customers may choose to be served under an applicable optional Time-of-Use ("TOU") rate. Eligible customer-generators who complete their interconnection application for service under this schedule within a period of 120 days after SDG&E's 2016 General Rate Case Phase 2 ("GRC P2") proceeding (A.15-04-012) TOU rates become effective shall be permitted to 1) take service under the new TOU rates or 2) take service under existing TOU rates or tiered rates in effect at the time their interconnection application was completed for a period of time up to five years from the date they take service.
                Last edited by sensij; 06-23-2017, 11:26 PM.
                CS6P-260P/SE3000 - http://tiny.cc/ed5ozx

                Comment


                • #9
                  I now have a headache!

                  I'm a NEM-1.0 customer 2/2016 who works from home many days (and my spouse is at home most days). I've looked at usage and it seems like we do use a decent amount during the days (on hot AC-running days we use about 15kwh more than we produce, and it looks like we use everything we produce during the "peak" time period 11-6, with the extra 15kwh usage before and after. Over the course of the last year we consumed about 1000kwh more than we produced.

                  SDGE says my current DR plan costs me $301 per year and moving to DR-SES will reduce it to $120 per year.

                  (a) can I believe them?
                  (b) based on the usage I described, it _sounds_ like DR-SES will work in my favor?
                  (c) there is a deadline of 7/28 to sign-up to get 5-years with the 11-6 peak period, and after that it moves to 1-9?
                  (d) what's the downside if I change to the DR-SES plan - will I lose any of my terms that are grandfathered under NEM 1.0 ?

                  This is way more confusing than I hoped it would be

                  Thanks,
                  mj

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    You have enough history that the analysis provided by SDG&E should be good. They are under pressure from the CPUC to be developing tools to help more customers evaluate different TOU options, so there should be some legitimacy behind what they are doing. Next week, I can share a spreadsheet with current DR-SES rates, so if you download your data, it can be loaded in and used to confirm their recommendation. TOU can be surprising with how beneficial it can be for systems that don't fully offset consumption.

                    It "sounds" like it might be good because you can usually bank some nice credits during summer hours in between the heat waves that require the heavy air conditioner use.

                    There should be a 120 day grace period before you lose access to the current time periods. I would, however, switch sooner rather than later if the TOU rate really should work out better.

                    You don't lose NEM 1.0 status. You will only lose access to DR... your future tariff options if you don't like DR-SES will be whatever other TOU plans exist at that time (more are coming).

                    CS6P-260P/SE3000 - http://tiny.cc/ed5ozx

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Sooner or later Tijuana will build Coal or NG power plants taking all those jobs with them and sell you power. You guys in CA are Hostages and you like it because you made it happen.
                      MSEE, PE

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Sunking View Post
                        Sooner or later Tijuana will build Coal or NG power plants taking all those jobs with them and sell you power. You guys in CA are Hostages and you like it because you made it happen.
                        Not many jobs in a NG or coal-fired plant. We lost many more good paying jobs when the two nuclear plants closed. Not completely a bad thing, considering the hazards (location near fault lines and still no clear plan on what to do with the waste). That said, we're not hostages - we're producing a high % of solar today. I'm at the point where I've reduced my $3500/year electricity cost to $300 ... and maybe with this rate change down to $120. I'm quite happy.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by sensij View Post
                          You have enough history that the analysis provided by SDG&E should be good. They are under pressure from the CPUC to be developing tools to help more customers evaluate different TOU options, so there should be some legitimacy behind what they are doing. Next week, I can share a spreadsheet with current DR-SES rates, so if you download your data, it can be loaded in and used to confirm their recommendation. TOU can be surprising with how beneficial it can be for systems that don't fully offset consumption.

                          It "sounds" like it might be good because you can usually bank some nice credits during summer hours in between the heat waves that require the heavy air conditioner use.

                          There should be a 120 day grace period before you lose access to the current time periods. I would, however, switch sooner rather than later if the TOU rate really should work out better.

                          You don't lose NEM 1.0 status. You will only lose access to DR... your future tariff options if you don't like DR-SES will be whatever other TOU plans exist at that time (more are coming).
                          That's what I thought ... I lose access to "today's" tiered plans if I switch, right? It doesn't sound like I'll lose ... I'll wait another few weeks and run the calcs again. I have until 7/28 to sign-up.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by MoJ View Post

                            That's what I thought ... I lose access to "today's" tiered plans if I switch, right? It doesn't sound like I'll lose ... I'll wait another few weeks and run the calcs again. I have until 7/28 to sign-up.

                            So, look hard under all the rocks and if it looks like a winner, go for it at your next billing date. But do this: After the switch, read your meter every day at ~ the same time and record daily usage. Then compare $$/kWh usage at the end of the billing periods to get some idea of whether or not T.O.U. might result in a lower per kWh price for you. At the end of 3 billing periods and w/ the help of what I expect are Sensij's pretty well informed spreadsheet(s), you ought to be able to get a fair picture to help in decision making and switch back before 120 days if you determine T.O.U. is not for you. One other thing to keep in mind: As of now, and for 5 yrs. or so, the T.O.U. times will be fixed if you change before 07/28 (as I seem to remember), but 5 years is not as long as you might think. You also may be able to switch most anytime in the future, but the terms of the deal will probably be different and maybe not as favorable to you, or more favorable. Who knows ?
                            Last edited by J.P.M.; 07-06-2017, 07:16 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by J.P.M. View Post
                              After the switch, read your meter every day at ~ the same time and record daily usage. Then compare $$/kWh usage at the end of the billing periods to get some idea of whether or not T.O.U. might result in a lower per kWh price for you.
                              I've got it even better ... I have a rainforest and send both consumption and production data up to PVOutput ... that's how I can see my day's usage as it happens -- it's VERY cool and reminds me how bloody much AC uses!!!

                              What I'm also seeing is that our East-facing giant windows force more AC usage in the early part of the day, and it goes down quite a bit after 2pm.


                              Capture.JPG

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