SDG&E Rates Update

[J.P.M.]

I've got it even better ... I have a rainforest and send both consumption and production data up to PVOutput ... that's how I can see my day's usage as it happens -- it's VERY cool and reminds me how bloody much AC uses!!!

What I'm also seeing is that our East-facing giant windows force more AC usage in the early part of the day, and it goes down quite a bit after 2pm.


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That's OK, but if the goal is to compare per kWh (average) billing T.O.U. vs. tiered tariffs for the same approximate usage pattern(s) to help in determining if a switch to a T.O.U. tariff will result in a lower bill, current as well as prior use and some way (as via a spreadsheet) is useful. The 15 min. usage data many POCOs provide, coupled with a spreadsheet that has accurate representations of the intricacies of the various tariffs under consideration are powerful and necessary tools for the process. PVOutput is nice and useful, but ssems less than as accurate and complete a tool as may be required for the task. I've got spreadsheets that work for me, and let me know that given my usage and likely future T.O.U. time gyrations, pro or con, I'm probably better staying with tiered rates for several reasons. Point is I'm not sure PVOutput, as nice as it may be, will give me the info I need. For the record, I'm not on PVOutput anyway.

As for the window, I'd consider getting an awning. And get a whole house fan, and ventilate at nite as much as possible. FWIW, both measures can be very effective. 3,200 ft^2 home north of Escondido, retired and home most of the time, ~ 6,500 - 7,000 kWh/yr. total annual usage. Of that, annual A/C usage is ~ 1,100 kWh/yr. Last few days, hi's 90 F. + lows, in lower '60's, A/C fires up ~ 3:30 -4:00 P.M, and operates til ~ 8 - P.M. Thermostat set at 78 F.

[DanKegel]

As for the window, I'd consider getting an awning.

Yup. (Other options: drapes, shutters, reflective film, or 'solar screens', all of which are worse on the eyes than an awning.) If you figure out something with a reasonable payback time and good optics, let us know what worked!

[MoJ]

"As for the window, I'd consider getting an awning. And get a whole house fan, and ventilate at nite as much as possible. FWIW, both measures can be very effective. 3,200 ft^2 home north of Escondido, retired and home most of the time, ~ 6,500 - 7,000 kWh/yr. total annual usage. Of that, annual A/C usage is ~ 1,100 kWh/yr. Last few days, hi's 90 F. + lows, in lower '60's, A/C fires up ~ 3:30 -4:00 P.M, and operates til ~ 8 - P.M. Thermostat set at 78 F.

Wise man - excellent points. I looked back at a lot of AC days and yes, I'm seeing it now. There is a real potential to use up all of the production in the peak hours and then have to pay for non-peak times- whereas with today's system, I get the advantage of averaging usage over an entire day (and month). As long as I don't have to do anything, I think I'll hold off. Especially because I think I may actually do better with a later "peak hour" scenario.

We have a whole house fan and that's what we use starting around 7-8pm (if the humidity isn't too awful - we're close to Balboa Park in the city, so we get the humidity and marine layer). My next project is to figure out how to have the Ecobee communicate with the ISY (Insteon controls) to shut off HVAC, turn on the fan, and open a window with an actuator - and vice versa. We're also putting in roller solar shades on the upper 7x7 windows to battle the early day sun - no awnings, it's a loft condo space. The ones we've been looking at are actually pretty cool and still offer some view-ability, but reflect out most of the glare.

I'm also dealing with a 15-year old HVAC system, and I have a feeling it's going to be replaced in the next 1-2 years -- so even more efficiency.

Cheers and thanks for the help gang!

[J.P.M.]

Yup. (Other options: drapes, shutters, reflective film, or 'solar screens', all of which are worse on the eyes than an awning.) If you figure out something with a reasonable payback time and good optics, let us know what worked!

Dan: I already have. Reread the post and use your imagination. If you bother to look, you'll quickly learn things like I write about have been around for a long time - some of them like moveable shading, night time ventilation and thermal mass for thousands of years. Most of them only take some common sense, and getting involved with and learning how it's done. In the HVAC bill reduction business, low tech is a much better way to start. Better, cheaper, faster, more reliable and a lot less maint.

[Sunking]

That said, we're not hostages - we're producing a high % of solar today. I'm at the point where I've reduced my $3500/year electricity cost to $300 ... and maybe with this rate change down to $120. I'm quite happy.

You are not getting it. Every year CA has to import more out of state power. You are loosing ground, not gaining anything. If AZ, NV, and OR cut off power CA goes dark. TC, OK, and 22 other states pay 10-cents or less for a Kwh. Many states like TX pay around 8 to 9 cents per Kwh for the first 2500 Kwh, any thing over 2500 KWH the rate goes down even more to around 6 to 7-cents. The more you use, the less expensive it becomes. In CA is exact opposite, Why? Failed Energy policy. You are hostages.

[DanKegel]

In the HVAC bill reduction business, low tech is a much better way to start. Better, cheaper, faster, more reliable and a lot less maint.

I do believe the methods I mentioned are low tech.

[SunEagle]

Yup. (Other options: drapes, shutters, reflective film, or 'solar screens', all of which are worse on the eyes than an awning.) If you figure out something with a reasonable payback time and good optics, let us know what worked!

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Which is why wind turbines keep getting blocked by the locals and solar farms required expensive "shields" so they can't be seen by the locals.

To each their own but if some type of awning, shutter or drape at the window keeps the heat out of my house I could care less what it looks like.

[J.P.M.]

You are not getting it. Every year CA has to import more out of state power. You are loosing ground, not gaining anything. If AZ, NV, and OR cut off power CA goes dark. TC, OK, and 22 other states pay 10-cents or less for a Kwh. Many states like TX pay around 8 to 9 cents per Kwh for the first 2500 Kwh, any thing over 2500 KWH the rate goes down even more to around 6 to 7-cents. The more you use, the less expensive it becomes. In CA is exact opposite, Why? Failed Energy policy. You are hostages.

Some of us (but not me of course) , may well think we're refugees, but seeing higher prices for most everything as being part of the price of being able to avoid some parts of some lifestyles viewed as less desirable.

Pay your money, take your choice.

[J.P.M.]

I do believe the methods I mentioned are low tech.

And my point was to your snarky jab. I'd also disagree that a lot of passive conservation techniques such as you mention are low tech. Simple to use maybe maybe, but little user involvement does not necessarily mean unsophisticated or low tech. As for beauty, as SunEagle notes, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I'd cite a lot of HOA's concerns about placing big, black monolithic slabs on roofs as one example.

[DanKegel]

And my point was to your snarky jab.

Wait, what snarky jab? My posts on this thread are straight-up no sarcasm, no snark. I was agreeing with you!

[Sunking]

Some of us (but not me of course) , may well think we're refugees, but seeing higher prices for most everything as being part of the price of being able to avoid some parts of some lifestyles viewed as less desirable.

Pay your money, take your choice.

Yeah I get it. Bet you would do backflips if you could pay 9-cents per Kwh with no limits or restrictions.

[wwu123]

I've got it even better ... I have a rainforest and send both consumption and production data up to PVOutput ... that's how I can see my day's usage as it happens -- it's VERY cool and reminds me how bloody much AC uses!!!

What I'm also seeing is that our East-facing giant windows force more AC usage in the early part of the day, and it goes down quite a bit after 2pm.


Capture.JPG

I do the same with PVOutput.org. Not sure if you're modeling your current tariffs, but if you are, you could also set up a 2nd "system" in PVOutput and feed the same consumption and production there but with modeling an alternate tariff, and at least you'll start getting a running tally of the relative costs.

The tariff input there is OK for inputting TOU rates, though it can't model tiered rates. But if your annual bill is going to be between $120-300/yr you're probably in Tier 1 almost every month like I am, and don't need to model the higher tiers.

[sensij]

I'm a big fan of using PVoutput for live tariff evaluation. Retrospectively, it is kind of a pain since you can only load one tariff at a time, so summer and winter needed to be evaluated separately.

For those who survived the threadjack... Per SDG&E, the deadline is not July 28, but December 1, which is when the later peak hours will become effective for new customers who take service on the tou tariffs.

[J.P.M.]

Yeah I get it. Bet you would do backflips if you could pay 9-cents per Kwh with no limits or restrictions.

We interrupt our normal energy bloviating and condescension schedule for this special request induced rant on the state of the U.S.

Rant mode on

Since you're asking, but before the show begins, the short answer is no, I would not do back flips, or at least not care much what happens to prices.

Actually if I was making the rules, I'd get rid of all subsidies, tax credits, solar and otherwise, oil depletion allowances, import tariffs - all of it. Then, get the government tax system out of everyone's life, go to a flat tax with no deductions or credits for anything - and I mean nothing. I'd push for a constitutionally mandated balanced budget every year with any budget deficit, or surplus, cleared out the following year by adjusting the tax rate and reset that flat tax rate from year to year based on a budget we all vote on with a double tax penalty for those who don't vote.

Now, what was your question ? - Oh yea --->>>:

I'd either like to see the price of energy go where it will without any gov. intervention as would happen with the above moronic bucket list. ORRR:

In a more practical but still pretty drastic way, raise energy prices via taxation to absolutely draconian levels via the tax code and use the revenue to reduce the national debt to zero. Once that's paid off, if it's not too late, I'd continue to tax energy, but use the revenue to scrap and rebuild the public education system in this country. What we have now is the root cause of our eminent, and probably now unavoidable demise. Our education system was once first class. Now it's a baby sitting service and a damnable joke. But, I've little real hope of that changing that as ignorant people are easier to control because they're easier to B.S. Look what we've got now as examples. We 've become a nation of nitwit palm zombies. Along the way, as the educational system gets rebuilt and people learn how to think and get educated educated (which is not what they're getting now), again if it's not too late, they'll use less energy.

What I would do backflips for is to see this country stop wasting so much of everything, starting with human potential. I'd like to see that accomplished via education and cooperation, but that needs a kick start. hence the energy price increases to fund a rebuild of the educational system after elimination of the ticking bomb national debt.

As for prices I pay, my ultimate control is on what I pay for my total use. Seems like I may be one of the last to think that way. I pay less by using less and adjusting my use as the price/unit changes. So, if you people to really use less of something, hit'em in the wallet. Works every time.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming. Rant mode off.

[DanKegel]

Dang, I think we need a new thread for that.