Tesla solar roof - orders being taken next week

[adoublee]

One thing I can say for those that hate nuclear is that at least if can be classified as a non-carbon or green house gas emitting power generator which I believe is their main drive behind removing the fossil fuel generating plants.

That's like saying at least a turd can be used as fertilizer.

Main drive for some is not carbon but other pollutants associated with combustion of fossil fuels (coal especially) as well as impacts of gathering the fuels. Also the impacts of water use. And the wasted embodied energy associated with remote central station power supplies - we should want the fossil fuels we do need to last as long as possible.

[SunEagle]

That's like saying at least a turd can be used as fertilizer.

Main drive for some is not carbon but other pollutants associated with combustion of fossil fuels (coal especially) as well as impacts of gathering the fuels. Also the impacts of water use. And the wasted embodied energy associated with remote central station power supplies - we should want the fossil fuels we do need to last as long as possible.

Last time I read about the subject there is enough fossil fuel to last for 100's of years and maybe more depending on how much you want to invest getting it out of the ground.

So I am not sure what your point is concerning other pollutants since the US has spent millions on technology and have significantly reduced the amount of a lot of those nasty by-products to clean up the air and water which I would like to see them continue to do.

If you don't want remote power stations how do you plan on powering your lights and appliances 24/7/365? Going off grid? Good luck with that.

[jflorey2]

Actually the newest generation nuclear plant is a designed around small modules that can stand alone or be increase in numbers to increase output. They are also supposed to be much more tolerant of not needed an active cooling system to stay stable. But then again this is new unproven technology that while I am interested in seeing developed, others are so scared they choose not to even want to think about this option.

Agreed. I'd like to see research into the PBMR's I believe you are talking about. Beyond being safer they are high temperature gas reactors, and HTGR's can be used to generate hydrogen directly via thermal dissociation. (And hydrogen is a terrible fuel, but you can store it on-site to run peakers and make methane with it for fuel.) I'd also like to see research into thorium reactors; they eliminate the problem of fuel supplies.

In the short term I'd like to see some of the closer-to-reality Gen III nuclear plants (like the AP600/AP1000) built. They are many times safer than modern plants, although they use the same basic light water design. An AP1000 is being built in China currently; that will give us real world experience with its efficiency, reliability and safety. A few were planned for the US, but with the recent changes to the US government who knows what will survive.

[jflorey2]

I owned both.

Yep. I decided to get into Tesla after driving the Sportster in 2012; realizing that Musk was able to build competent cars (and seeing the demand for those hideously expensive convertibles) made me think it was a good risk. Then like an idiot I put it off until 2013, when I got in at 161. So I've almost doubled my money, and it's just about time to get out.

[SunEagle]

Agreed. I'd like to see research into the PBMR's I believe you are talking about. Beyond being safer they are high temperature gas reactors, and HTGR's can be used to generate hydrogen directly via thermal dissociation. (And hydrogen is a terrible fuel, but you can store it on-site to run peakers and make methane with it for fuel.) I'd also like to see research into thorium reactors; they eliminate the problem of fuel supplies.

In the short term I'd like to see some of the closer-to-reality Gen III nuclear plants (like the AP600/AP1000) built. They are many times safer than modern plants, although they use the same basic light water design. An AP1000 is being built in China currently; that will give us real world experience with its efficiency, reliability and safety. A few were planned for the US, but with the recent changes to the US government who knows what will survive.

My fear is there may be a bump in the road when it comes to building of new reactors based on what happened between Westinghouse and Toshiba.

[adoublee]

Last time I read about the subject there is enough fossil fuel to last for 100's of years and maybe more depending on how much you want to invest getting it out of the ground.

So I am not sure what your point is concerning other pollutants since the US has spent millions on technology and have significantly reduced the amount of a lot of those nasty by-products to clean up the air and water which I would like to see them continue to do.

If you don't want remote power stations how do you plan on powering your lights and appliances 24/7/365? Going off grid? Good luck with that.

Distributed generation so people take responsibility for their appliances and lights. Technology has not cleaned up coal.

[tyab]

Lots of passion in this growing thread. The geek in me wants to know the following issues about the tiles:
- Cost per watt.
- How to deal with heat.
- Wiring to NEC standards and including the upcoming 2020 NEC changes.
- Are any NEC / building code changes needed for this technology to ensure safety?
- Safety to first responders - can they walk on them - it is easily identifiable not to walk on them if not safe. How to deal with 3' border. Can they be cut for venting? What happens if there is a fire underneath. How is rapid shutdown supported?
- Retrofit ability.
- Warranty.
- How they hold up after a few years, 3, 5, and longer.

I hope they are a success but the engineering challenges are daunting considering the price point they are trying to achieve. Unfortunately the early adopters will basically be longer term beta testers.

[J.P.M.]

Yep. I decided to get into Tesla after driving the Sportster in 2012; realizing that Musk was able to build competent cars (and seeing the demand for those hideously expensive convertibles) made me think it was a good risk. Then like an idiot I put it off until 2013, when I got in at 161. So I've almost doubled my money, and it's just about time to get out.

You got into TSLA about the time I bailed. I bought the TSLA stock, not so much because Tesla automobiles are such a great product, but more because of the generally low opinion I have of people's ability to not be B.S'd, and, after having been one for ~ 10+years in a prior iteration of life, seeing Musk's abilities as a peddler. The perfect storm. He's separating fools from their $$ and I rode the bandwagon for awhile. It's just business. To not own that stock was, to me anyway, and at that time, leaving money on the table. Such is the strength of my opinion about people's gullibility and letting emption rule over logic in ways that will almost always do harm. Same logic I used w/ Sunpower. Their marketing created an image of a superior product, and while it's good stuff, in my considered engineering opinion, for what such opinion may be worth, their stuff is no more fit for purpose than other quality equipment that's available for a lot less $$. It's somewhat ironic to me that part of their higher cost is probably due to the quantity of their marketing of half truths to solar ignorant lemmings.

[SunEagle]

Distributed generation so people take responsibility for their appliances and lights. Technology has not cleaned up coal.

Unfortunately people don't take responsibility for just about anything let alone being able to figure out how to generate their own electricity.

And you are wrong about coal not being cleaned up. Compared to what it was 5 years ago a number of newer coal fired plants are pretty clean when it comes to pollutants not going into the air. They are still working on capturing carbon but apparently that is not a major concern for you which is fine with me.

[J.P.M.]

Lots of passion in this growing thread. The geek in me wants to know the following issues about the tiles:
- Cost per watt.
- How to deal with heat.
- Wiring to NEC standards and including the upcoming 2020 NEC changes.
- Are any NEC / building code changes needed for this technology to ensure safety?
- Safety to first responders - can they walk on them - it is easily identifiable not to walk on them if not safe. How to deal with 3' border. Can they be cut for venting? What happens if there is a fire underneath. How is rapid shutdown supported?
- Retrofit ability.
- Warranty.
- How they hold up after a few years, 3, 5, and longer.

I hope they are a success but the engineering challenges are daunting considering the price point they are trying to achieve. Unfortunately the early adopters will basically be longer term beta testers.

Lots of folks besides geeks want the same questions answered and more. Keep your ear to the ground and wait for the beta tester sucker results.

[jflorey2]

You got into TSLA about the time I bailed. I bought the TSLA stock, not so much because Tesla automobiles are such a great product, but more because of the generally low opinion I have of people's ability to not be B.S'd, and, after having been one for ~ 10+years in a prior iteration of life, seeing Musk's abilities as a peddler. The perfect storm. He's separating fools from their $$ and I rode the bandwagon for awhile. It's just business. . . . their stuff is no more fit for purpose than other quality equipment that's available for a lot less $$.

I agree that it's all business. Demand is driven by perceived value, and that in combination with price determines how well it will sell. Given that it's been rated very highly by most review organizations (highest rating ever by Consumer Reports, "almost perfect" by Bloomberg, #1 in luxury cars by US News etc) demand is high, and will likely continue to be so. That's been the primary reason I've stayed with the stock as long as I have - because people want this car. The downside to me is his "creative" (i.e. nuts) cashflow situation, which is why I will likely get rid of it soon; it is likely that no matter how good the product, Tesla will not be able to continue to manufacture it unless they make a significant change to their financial model. And I don't see any signs of that.

[Sunking]

Lots of fraud stock has soared. Hell i use to work for one of the biggest, MCI Worldcom for 14 years and made a fortune. Made a nice profit from Enron and even TSLA. I knew every one of them were frauds cooking the books. They all do the roughly the same thing. They use capital dollars for Operations. Sooner or later the shoe will fall. The trick is to get out before it happens.

[Mike90250]

Distributed generation so people take responsibility for their appliances and lights. Technology has not cleaned up coal.

There's that pesky R word. Hey, it's not my fault, I was born that way, and even knowing math, I want that student loan.

And, actually, technology has cleaned up a lot from coal. Not every bit of mercury and radioactive isotopes, but a lot of the other stuff.

[peakbagger]

Looks like a misdirect to me

https://electrek.co/2017/04/09/tesla-solar-panel-panasonic/

Quite a disappointment. Just a mashup of conventional panel tech. Sure isn't BIPVs

[sensij]

Looks like a misdirect to me

https://electrek.co/2017/04/09/tesla-solar-panel-panasonic/

Quite a disappointment. Just a mashup of conventional panel tech. Sure isn't BIPVs

It looks like their solar roof BIPV product is something different than what you've linked here. I'm not sure that the announcement of these (conventional) low profile panels tells us anything about the solar roof.