PG&E E1, E-6, or EV-A with Solar

[sensij]

That's not correct, at least not for SDG&E. At true-up time, the minimum charge is calculated based on the average per month consumption. So for example, if for the first 6-month, you're net consumer every month and billed total $100, and the other 6-month, you're net producer every month and billed $60 ($10 min/month) and had -$100 in credit, at true-up time, you will pay another $60 minimum charge. By the same token, if instead of $100, you consumed $600 in the first 6-month, you will pay $500 at tune-up time without the minimum charge. Even though it's not reflected in your monthly statement, it will be readjusted at anniversary. I just had my tune-up statement last month, and was assessed extra $$$ for minimum charge, since I was net producer in revenue terms (even though I used much more than I produced) under the EV-TOU2 plan.

What in your true-up statement suggests that what I said is incorrect? If I understand what you just wrote, you said you had to pay the monthly minimum because you were a producer. If you were a net (revenue) producer in all 12 mo, then you pay the minimum * 12. If you were a net producer in 6 mo, then you pay the minimum * 6. If you have evidence to the contrary please post it.

[solar_newbie]

What in your true-up statement suggests that what I said is incorrect? If I understand what you just wrote, you said you had to pay the monthly minimum because you were a producer. If you were a net (revenue) producer in all 12 mo, then you pay the minimum * 12. If you were a net producer in 6 mo, then you pay the minimum * 6. If you have evidence to the contrary please post it.

The payment of $120 as minimum is the must. Based on the example, you can save $40 from the first 6 months using the -100 credit. But the last 6 month of $60 is waste or electrical company takes it for free .

If the first 6 months, I use $600, I could offset the -100 credit to pay $500. Can I offset the minimum $60 for the last 6 months to pay $440 or not?

[thejq]

What in your true-up statement suggests that what I said is incorrect? If I understand what you just wrote, you said you had to pay the monthly minimum because you were a producer. If you were a net (revenue) producer in all 12 mo, then you pay the minimum * 12. If you were a net producer in 6 mo, then you pay the minimum * 6. If you have evidence to the contrary please post it.

No, I was net producer in most of the summer months during which I paid the minimum charge, and net consumer in most of the winter months when I paid the actual consumption. So in my true-up statement, I had to paid extra $20-30 (I forgot exactly) minimum charge readjustment. Also remember most of early this and last year, the minimum charge was $5/month. If what you said was correct, I would not have gotten minimum charge readjustment. I also called SDG&E for clarification and was told the same. I will write something up with my findings and provide proof when I have some free time. Just came back from a long overseas trip, I have to get over jet-lag and catch up with "The Walking Dead" first .

[thejq]

The payment of $120 as minimum is the must. Based on the example, you can save $40 from the first 6 months using the -100 credit. But the last 6 month of $60 is waste or electrical company takes it for free .

If the first 6 months, I use $600, I could offset the -100 credit to pay $500. Can I offset the minimum $60 for the last 6 months to pay $440 or not?

With netmetering, you don't pay anything until true-up. So in your example, you will be billed $500 in total which includes the minimum charges. You can also think of it as $120+380 or $60+440, either way the total is $500.

[sensij]

No, I was net producer in most of the summer months during which I paid the minimum charge, and net consumer in most of the winter months when I paid the actual consumption. So in my true-up statement, I had to paid extra $20-30 (I forgot exactly) minimum charge readjustment. Also remember most of early this and last year, the minimum charge was $5/month. If what you said was correct, I would not have gotten minimum charge readjustment. I also called SDG&E for clarification and was told the same. I will write something up with my findings and provide proof when I have some free time. Just came back from a long overseas trip, I have to get over jet-lag and catch up with "The Walking Dead" first .

So what you are saying, I think, is illustrated by this hypothetical usage profile, negative meaning net producer.

1 100
2 100
3 100
4 100
5 -100
6 -100
7 -100
8 -100
9 -100
10 100
11 100
12 100

In this scenario, before the true up you would have 5 months you were charged the monthly minimum and 7 months you weren't. When they go through and do the readjustment during true-up, the -500 credit wipes out 5 months of 100 consumption, so now you have 5 more months you need to pay the minimum (your readjustment charge), for a total of 10 months of minimum charges and two months of actual consumption charges. Have I understood correctly?

[thejq]

So what you are saying, I think, is illustrated by this hypothetical usage profile, negative meaning net producer.

1 100
2 100
3 100
4 100
5 -100
6 -100
7 -100
8 -100
9 -100
10 100
11 100
12 100

In this scenario, before the true up you would have 5 months you were charged the monthly minimum and 7 months you weren't. When they go through and do the readjustment during true-up, the -500 credit wipes out 5 months of 100 consumption, so now you have 5 more months you need to pay the minimum (your readjustment charge), for a total of 10 months of minimum charges and two months of actual consumption charges. Have I understood correctly?

Not really. Minimum charge is calculated on the average or total. So with your example, your total consumption is $700-500 = $200 which is more than $120. So you pay the actual consumption of $200. But say if it was $600-500 = $100 which's $20 away from $120, you will be assessed $20 minimum charge to reach the $120/year minimum. The only thing allows you to pay less is the California Climate Credit ($72/year) and reduce-your-usage reward (varies).

[sensij]

Not really. Minimum charge is calculated on the average or total. So with your example, your total consumption is $700-500 = $200 which is more than $120. So you pay the actual consumption of $200. But say if it was $600-500 = $100 which's $20 away from $120, you will be assessed $20 minimum charge to reach the $120/year minimum. The only thing allows you to pay less is the California Climate Credit ($72/year) and reduce-your-usage reward (varies).

Ah, ok, but that isn't consistent with what I've seen. My understanding is that in my example, the total bill would be $200, plus the monthly minimum for the 5 negative months, so $250 assuming $10 / mo minimum.

I'll refrain from further comment until you have an opportunity to post your numbers or statement that illustrates this. I do agree that there is no way to get a bill of less than $120 (assuming $10 / mo min), besides the CCC and RYU credits.

[w00dy]

I guess I am not the only one that has trouble understanding exactly what we might be billed based on usage/minimum fees/meter fees - time will tell for us as we are only 3 weeks in to this new setup.

I would be curious to see if EV-A has better minimums if/when we are getting close to zeroing our bill out...

For now I am planning to stick with E-6 and then take a look at where we stand after 6 months or so. So far we are only charging the EV car every 10 days or so. In addition, we have some great free charging options where we shop and dine - so we have only charged at home one time this month...

[veerrao]

EV-A option seems more effective, if you charge off peak hours

[thejq]

I guess I am not the only one that has trouble understanding exactly what we might be billed based on usage/minimum fees/meter fees - time will tell for us as we are only 3 weeks in to this new setup.

I would be curious to see if EV-A has better minimums if/when we are getting close to zeroing our bill out...

For now I am planning to stick with E-6 and then take a look at where we stand after 6 months or so. So far we are only charging the EV car every 10 days or so. In addition, we have some great free charging options where we shop and dine - so we have only charged at home one time this month...

As far as I know, the minimum charge is independent of the plan you pick.

[solardreamer]

So what you are saying, I think, is illustrated by this hypothetical usage profile, negative meaning net producer.

1 100
2 100
3 100
4 100
5 -100
6 -100
7 -100
8 -100
9 -100
10 100
11 100
12 100

In this scenario, before the true up you would have 5 months you were charged the monthly minimum and 7 months you weren't. When they go through and do the readjustment during true-up, the -500 credit wipes out 5 months of 100 consumption, so now you have 5 more months you need to pay the minimum (your readjustment charge), for a total of 10 months of minimum charges and two months of actual consumption charges. Have I understood correctly?

Your understanding is incorrect for PG&E at least. For PG&E, minimum electric charge is a monthly fee but the cumulative fee total is deducted from the cumulative NEM charge at annual true up. So, you don't need to worry about whether you are a net producer or consumer on a monthly basis.

Here is sample PG&E statement that provides additional explanation:

http://www.pge.com/includes/docs/pdfs/myhome/saveenergymoney/solarenergy/billing%20callouts%20NEM%20monthly.pdf

[sensij]

Your understanding is incorrect for PG&E at least. For PG&E, minimum electric charge is a monthly fee but the cumulative fee total is deducted from the cumulative NEM charge at annual true up. So, you don't need to worry about whether you are a net producer or consumer on a monthly basis.

Here is sample PG&E statement that provides additional explanation:

http://www.pge.com/includes/docs/pdf...%20monthly.pdf

Look more closely at that example. The reason the monthly minimums get deducted at true-up (the bottom box) is because they were *already paid* in the monthly bill that included the gas charges. See the "Current Electric Charges" line in the "Your Account Summary" section. If they didn't subtract them out of the NEM accounting, you could end up double paying, depending on the math that goes into the "NEM Charges before taxes" line.

[cebury]

There will continue to be a 3rd tier, known as the super-user electric surcharge (SUE surcharge). You can see what PG&E filed with the CPUC this summer to illustrate what rates will look like under the rate reform decision.

http://docs.cpuc.ca.gov/PublishedDoc.../152961304.PDF

Is there a filings for their intentions/requests for E-6? I've been digging around that site for a while can't find it.

[sensij]

Is there a filings for their intentions/requests for E-6? I've been digging around that site for a while can't find it.

None that I've seen, beyond closing E-6 to new customers at the end of the year. I've been following SDG&E's rate proposals a bit more closely though, so I could have missed something.

[thejq]

Look more closely at that example. The reason the monthly minimums get deducted at true-up (the bottom box) is because they were *already paid* in the monthly bill that included the gas charges. See the "Current Electric Charges" line in the "Your Account Summary" section. If they didn't subtract them out of the NEM accounting, you could end up double paying, depending on the math that goes into the "NEM Charges before taxes" line.

So it works the same way as SDG&E. In the sample bill, the customer pays $4.48/month minimum electric charge with the gas bill. At the true-up time, the total net consumption minus $4.48 * 12 is the final bill. If the total net consumption is less than $4.48 * 12, you pay nothing. The only difference is that SDG&E doesn't even collect the minimum charge until true-up time.