PG&E E1, E-6, or EV-A with Solar

[solar_newbie]

So the way I see that is that there is no Kwh given to us in that minimum charge. We don't get $.24928 or .32854 each day in electricity they just charge that at the beginning (Kind of like the starting rate on a Taxi Meter).

I see the last bill with E-6 (without NEM). It does not have any meter charge as it is much more than min charge. So, I do not think PG&E charge extra for your meter.

[sensij]

So the way I see that is that there is no Kwh given to us in that minimum charge. We don't get $.24928 or .32854 each day in electricity they just charge that at the beginning (Kind of like the starting rate on a Taxi Meter).

No. A taxi has a fixed charge that you pay no matter what, and there is an incremental charge for every mile you go.

The meter charge rate is not an additive charge on top of the kWh consumed. The daily meter charge rate is actually included in the bundled volumetric price. If you look at sheet 3 of the tariff, which unbundles the price, you can see where the meter charge components are included.

The original point is correct. If you assume the average price of electricity is ~$0.171 / kWh, a customer who has offset their usage 100% and has zero net consumption will have the same bill as a customer who has bought 700 kWh from PoCo. CPUC has explicitly ruled *against* fixed interconnection charges, and use the minimum charge as the pricing model to recover the fixed costs per meter.

[sensij]

Are they planning on incremental increases every 3 or so months like they have been or just ONE rate change/year as per the link above for E1 rates thru 2020 implies?

The current ruling has the min charge fixed for a few years, and then allowed to increase with inflation. The details are buried in some of the recent CPUC filings.

[w00dy]

No. A taxi has a fixed charge that you pay no matter what, and there is an incremental charge for every mile you go.

The meter charge rate is not an additive charge on top of the kWh consumed. The daily meter charge rate is actually included in the bundled volumetric price. If you look at sheet 3 of the tariff, which unbundles the price, you can see where the meter charge components are included.

The original point is correct. If you assume the average price of electricity is ~$0.171 / kWh, a customer who has offset their usage 100% and has zero net consumption will have the same bill as a customer who has bought 700 kWh from PoCo. CPUC has explicitly ruled *against* fixed interconnection charges, and use the minimum charge as the pricing model to recover the fixed costs per meter.

Thank you for the correction - I didn't quite understand the rules like I thought...I am pretty new at this!

[solar_newbie]

So I guess the best way is to burn the 700kwh during winter when solar production is low ... Summer should be covered with solar.

[sensij]

So I guess the best way is to burn the 700kwh during winter when solar production is low ... Summer should be covered with solar.

I'm not sure there is a universal best approach. Another twist to it is that the minimums are billed monthly. So, if you are a net producer in summer, but a net consumer in winter, you will still pay the monthly minimum for the summer months, even if, at the end of the year, you had net consumed the 700 kWh (illustrative numbers). The only way to avoid the monthly minimum completely is to be a net consumer *every* month of at least $10 worth of energy. The truly optimal case would be if your consumption rises and falls in the same cycle that production does. Air conditioning loads sort of do that, you use more during the same months you are generating more. When you look at the low-ish cost of baseline electricity, sizing a system that will get you into tier 1 each month, but not net negative, can be the most cost-effective approach for many sets of assumptions about the future.

[solar_newbie]

I am not sure who has solar for over 1 year to see the true up statement ...

[sensij]

I am not sure who has solar for over 1 year to see the true up statement ...

Believe what you'd like. Here is someone who broke down their PG&E true-up statement:

http://blog.metamatt.com/blog/2012/11/09/one-year-of-solar-power/

What is written suggests that it may be possible to avoid the $~0.075 / day difference between the meter charge and the monthly minimum, if you net consume a sufficient amount of energy over the year, but you cannot avoid the $0.253 / day meter charge for those months in which you were a net producer. The writer didn't really comprehend how the meter charge is embedded in the bundled kWh charge for those who are net consumers every month, but for his situation, that distinction doesn't come into play.

[solar_newbie]

It seems only E-6 has the meter charge. EV-A or E1 do not have. It seems EV-A can be the way to go ... if you have EV. I did multiple excel and model. I do not see any negative for EV-A rate vs E-6. With the meter charge of $92/year for E-6, it is the no-go for it... Will submit the change by next month to EV-A.

[solardreamer]

It seems only E-6 has the meter charge. EV-A or E1 do not have. It seems EV-A can be the way to go ... if you have EV. I did multiple excel and model. I do not see any negative for EV-A rate vs E-6. With the meter charge of $92/year for E-6, it is the no-go for it... Will submit the change by next month to EV-A.

Wise choice. If you do any significant amount of EV charging then EV-A is likely better.

[sensij]

It seems only E-6 has the meter charge. EV-A or E1 do not have. It seems EV-A can be the way to go ... if you have EV. I did multiple excel and model. I do not see any negative for EV-A rate vs E-6. With the meter charge of $92/year for E-6, it is the no-go for it... Will submit the change by next month to EV-A.

I'm fairly certain you are going to find that the minimum charge listed for EV-A is billed the same way as the meter charge. You will have to pay it for those months in which you are a net producer, or consume less than what the minimum would cover.

[solar_newbie]

I'm fairly certain you are going to find that the minimum charge listed for EV-A is billed the same way as the meter charge. You will have to pay it for those months in which you are a net producer, or consume less than what the minimum would cover.

The key is there is only min charge, but not meter charge for E1 and EV-A rate.

Total Minimum Charge Rate ($ per meter per day) $0.32854 (I)

http://www.pge.com/tariffs/tm2/pdf/ELEC_SCHEDS_EV.pdf

[wwu123]

No. A taxi has a fixed charge that you pay no matter what, and there is an incremental charge for every mile you go.

The meter charge rate is not an additive charge on top of the kWh consumed. The daily meter charge rate is actually included in the bundled volumetric price. If you look at sheet 3 of the tariff, which unbundles the price, you can see where the meter charge components are included.

The original point is correct. If you assume the average price of electricity is ~$0.171 / kWh, a customer who has offset their usage 100% and has zero net consumption will have the same bill as a customer who has bought 700 kWh from PoCo. CPUC has explicitly ruled *against* fixed interconnection charges, and use the minimum charge as the pricing model to recover the fixed costs per meter.

Well, that is somewhat good news then. I'm a net consumer, and with E-6 last year I did offset everything but the $4.XX/mo min charge; but this year we've got another adult living in the household and we're definitely consuming more. At least good to know I'd be paying for paying for that electricity anyway.

[sensij]

The key is there is only min charge, but not meter charge for E1 and EV-A rate.

Total Minimum Charge Rate ($ per meter per day) $0.32854 (I)

http://www.pge.com/tariffs/tm2/pdf/ELEC_SCHEDS_EV.pdf

SDG&E uses that same wording in their tariffs. However, when push comes to shove in the true-up, the minimum must get paid for each of the months in which it was accrued. Being a net consumer for the year will not help in the 6 months (for example) that you are a net producer.

[thejq]

SDG&E uses that same wording in their tariffs. However, when push comes to shove in the true-up, the minimum must get paid for each of the months in which it was accrued. Being a net consumer for the year will not help in the 6 months (for example) that you are a net producer.

That's not correct, at least not for SDG&E. At true-up time, the minimum charge is calculated based on the average per month consumption. So for example, if for the first 6-month, you're net consumer every month and billed total $100, and the other 6-month, you're net producer every month and billed $60 ($10 min/month) and had -$100 in credit, at true-up time, you will pay another $60 minimum charge. By the same token, if instead of $100, you consumed $600 in the first 6-month, you will pay $500 at tune-up time without the minimum charge. Even though it's not reflected in your monthly statement, it will be readjusted at anniversary. I just had my tune-up statement last month, and was assessed extra $$$ for minimum charge, since I was net producer in revenue terms (even though I used much more than I produced) under the EV-TOU2 plan.