PG&E E1, E-6, or EV-A with Solar

[solar_newbie]

Hi All,

I just copy the spreadsheet from someone. Modify with solar and ev car example..

Assumption:
- EV charge offpeak
- Solar production peak at 2PM
- For E-6
- Winter partial peak: 20% for 5 days a week (Since It is 5PM-8PM)
- Winter off peak : the rest
- Summer peak : 60% for 5 days a week (since it starts from 1PM)
- Summer partial-peak : 40% for M-F and 20% for Sat-Sun
- Summer off-peak : the rest

- For EV-A
- Peak: 50% for M-F, 40% for Sat-Sun
- Partial Peak : 50% for M-F
- Off-peak : the rest

Load current last year usage from PG&E. Whatever number I change for having or not having EV car or different charging for EV car, EV-A rate is still better vs E-6 rate. E1 is the worst, so I do not expect to get money from PG&E or over production. My goal is to use all credits.

Since my production is very close to my usage plus EV car, I do not separate month by month calculation because I will be in tier 1 all the time. If you might be in tier 2,3,4 for many month the calculation should be done per month basic and add them together. You just need to replicate 12 times and input only one month per instance.

See the link. You can download and put your usage to try out.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1EAnkZ01aovd54mEuSlfm6jVKB8UravgmPxel2YKVCnE/edit?usp=sharing

Now, I wonder if I should change to EV-A. Even once I return the car (after the lease), I still be much better with EV-A.
However, one draw back is life style change for EV-A. I have to live with 11PM time ... If I ever think about run more AC, I will be tossed on EV-A plan. May be I will factor it into my next version.

[w00dy]

I am in a similar situation - and at the moment I am on E-6.

We don't use our EV car for a commute, and even if we did my commute is 5 miles roundtrip! So charging our EV can be done 1 or 2 times a week max. With that in mind I think E-6 might be better for us as it has a better (shorter) peak pricing section. The lower price of EVA might work, but for now I am sticking with E-6. I will update as we get a better picture of our energy use. Right now we are over producing on a daily basis with some car charging included...

Most of our energy use is in the 5PM-8PM time frame.

[solardreamer]

Hi All,

I just copy the spreadsheet from someone. Modify with solar and ev car example..

Assumption:
- EV charge offpeak
- Solar production peak at 2PM
- For E-6
- Winter partial peak: 20% for 5 days a week (Since It is 5PM-8PM)
- Winter off peak : the rest
- Summer peak : 60% for 5 days a week (since it starts from 1PM)
- Summer partial-peak : 40% for M-F and 20% for Sat-Sun
- Summer off-peak : the rest

- For EV-A
- Peak: 50% for M-F, 40% for Sat-Sun
- Partial Peak : 50% for M-F
- Off-peak : the rest

Load current last year usage from PG&E. Whatever number I change for having or not having EV car or different charging for EV car, EV-A rate is still better vs E-6 rate. E1 is the worst, so I do not expect to get money from PG&E or over production. My goal is to use all credits.

Since my production is very close to my usage plus EV car, I do not separate month by month calculation because I will be in tier 1 all the time. If you might be in tier 2,3,4 for many month the calculation should be done per month basic and add them together. You just need to replicate 12 times and input only one month per instance.

See the link. You can download and put your usage to try out.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1EAnkZ01aovd54mEuSlfm6jVKB8UravgmPxel2YKVCnE/edit?usp=sharing

Now, I wonder if I should change to EV-A. Even once I return the car (after the lease), I still be much better with EV-A.
However, one draw back is life style change for EV-A. I have to live with 11PM time ... If I ever think about run more AC, I will be tossed on EV-A plan. May be I will factor it into my next version.

Thanks for sharing your findings. It's consistent with my own analysis that shows EV-A is better than E-6 at least for commuting EV owners charging during off peak hours. BTW, based on the data in the spreadsheet, it seems like you are over generating quite a bit. It certainly looks like you could switch to EV-A and run more AC and still have credit.

[solardreamer]

I am in a similar situation - and at the moment I am on E-6.

We don't use our EV car for a commute, and even if we did my commute is 5 miles roundtrip! So charging our EV can be done 1 or 2 times a week max. With that in mind I think E-6 might be better for us as it has a better (shorter) peak pricing section. The lower price of EVA might work, but for now I am sticking with E-6. I will update as we get a better picture of our energy use. Right now we are over producing on a daily basis with some car charging included...

Most of our energy use is in the 5PM-8PM time frame.

E-6 will likely be better if you can stay on Tiers 1 consistently.

[cebury]

Hi All,

I just copy the spreadsheet from someone. Modify with solar and ev car example..

.

FYI: Did you happen to notice the rates and TOU periods were from 2013? They are different now. for ex. E1: tiers 1 and 2 were slightly raised and 3/4 were lowered by a bit more.

I updated the E1 rates and plugged in my data for 365 days and it came within a few bucks (I had to add a few more rows to the sheet and edit the formulas to include them).

[solar_newbie]

Yes. It changes for 1-2 years more and there will be no tier 3/4. The goal is tier 1/2 will increase 10-15% and there will be no tier 3/4 by 2017.
I would say tier 1 will become no economic any more in the future.

[sensij]

Yes. It changes for 1-2 years more and there will be no tier 3/4. The goal is tier 1/2 will increase 10-15% and there will be no tier 3/4 by 2017.
I would say tier 1 will become no economic any more in the future.

There will continue to be a 3rd tier, known as the super-user electric surcharge (SUE surcharge). You can see what PG&E filed with the CPUC this summer to illustrate what rates will look like under the rate reform decision.

http://docs.cpuc.ca.gov/PublishedDocs/Efile/G000/M152/K961/152961304.PDF

[solar_newbie]

There will continue to be a 3rd tier, known as the super-user electric surcharge (SUE surcharge). You can see what PG&E filed with the CPUC this summer to illustrate what rates will look like under the rate reform decision.

http://docs.cpuc.ca.gov/PublishedDoc.../152961304.PDF

The min payment 120/year force users to use 700kwh from PG&E. It seems unfair

[J.P.M.]

The min payment 120/year force users to use 700kwh from PG&E. It seems unfair

Who ever said anything about fair in any tariff ?

[wwu123]

The min payment 120/year force users to use 700kwh from PG&E. It seems unfair

I thought the new $10/mo was just connection charge to use the grid, included no kwh (min usage). There was a time when the min monthly charge included a min usage component, but I think now that $120/yr pays for 0 kwh?

At least right now everyone gets back about $50/year in semiannual CA clean energy rebates, partially offsetting the $120/year.

[solar_newbie]

I thought the new $10/mo was just connection charge to use the grid, included no kwh (min usage). There was a time when the min monthly charge included a min usage component, but I think now that $120/yr pays for 0 kwh?

At least right now everyone gets back about $50/year in semiannual CA clean energy rebates, partially offsetting the $120/year.

For NEM 1.0, the 10/mon is minimum usage. So, you get kwh. It is with PG&E. I am not sure others or NEM 2.0 in the future.

[w00dy]

For NEM 1.0, the 10/mon is minimum usage. So, you get kwh. It is with PG&E. I am not sure others or NEM 2.0 in the future.

How do you get any Kwh from the min $10 usage? - That is just a connection to the grid fee AFAIK.

If by some crazy chance I was able to zero my bill exactly with PG&E, then I will still owe them $10.00 per month. If I turn off my main breaker to the house, and theoretically use zero electricity for the month I will still owe $10. At least that is how I look at the rule.

[solar_newbie]

From E-6 tariff, page 2

Total Meter Charge Rate ($ per meter per day) $0.25298
Total Minimum Charge Rate ($ per meter per day) $0.32854 (I)

Link:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB0QFjAAahUKEwjy8JXXgc_IAhUHnYgKHdqMDh4&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pge.com%2Ftariffs%2Ftm2%2Fpdf%2FELEC_SCHEDS_E-6.pdf&usg=AFQjCNHYu4ANC2vtB8-Rt1IJFhS74COKOg&sig2=zBCFV8ugEmRURXyKSPLVNg

It translates to $120/year.

I guess the meter charge is embedded in the min charge.

[w00dy]

From E-6 tariff, page 2

Total Meter Charge Rate ($ per meter per day) $0.25298
Total Minimum Charge Rate ($ per meter per day) $0.32854 (I)

Link:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB0QFjAAahUKEwjy8JXXgc_IAhUHnYgKHdqMDh4&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pge.com%2Ftariffs%2Ftm2%2Fpdf%2FELEC_SCHEDS_E-6.pdf&usg=AFQjCNHYu4ANC2vtB8-Rt1IJFhS74COKOg&sig2=zBCFV8ugEmRURXyKSPLVNg

It translates to $120/year.

I guess the meter charge is embedded in the min charge.

So the way I see that is that there is no Kwh given to us in that minimum charge. We don't get $.24928 or .32854 each day in electricity they just charge that at the beginning (Kind of like the starting rate on a Taxi Meter).

[cebury]

So the way I see that is that there is no Kwh given to us in that minimum charge. We don't get $.24928 or .32854 each day in electricity they just charge that at the beginning (Kind of like the starting rate on a Taxi Meter).

Why name it Min. Charge instead of some other term like "fee" or "standby charge" or some such?

From a laymen perspective: it makes it sound like if I incur only 50kwh /month of consumption my bill is same as 0 kwh/month consumption. That isn't true?

Are they planning on incremental increases every 3 or so months like they have been or just ONE rate change/year as per the link above for E1 rates thru 2020 implies?