Solar Edge Vs Enphase Power optimizers

[Naptown]

Ok guys read the warranties and the momitoring specifics.
Enphase paid labor on the M190
And not on the 215 or 250
Enphase also stopped the panel level monitoring except for installers.
The envoy which is the heart of their monitoring is warranted for 2 let me repeat that for those who didn't get it the first time TWO YEARS. Not 25!
Want to add batteries in an AC coupled system warranty void if caught.
Oh and no single point of failure?
How about taking the number of panels and adding the number of microinverters to it. 20 panels string inverter 21 points of failure
21 panels with microinverters 42 points of failure.

[sdold]

The installer gets pay from Enphase for labor as now, so no big deal for them.

Didn't know that, good to hear. Not sure where I read to the contrary. EDIT: I think it was in a post above.

[silversaver]

Not many people monitoring their solar system everyday. If one of two go bad, the solar will still produce. The most recent 2 installations done with Enphase system, the installer only offer basic function as pubblic view to owners without individual panel monitoring.

The installer gets pay from Enphase for labor as now, so no big deal for them.

[sdold]

And in the end, is monitoring something that is fun to see when you first have the system installed but then loses it's novelty after awhile?

That's the way it was with me, the fun is gone but I do check it from time to time.

I'm surprised that installers aren't scared away by Enphase dropping the labor coverage in the warranty, especially with the history of the M190s. It seems like it would be very labor-intensive (costly) to replace two or three microinverters over the life of the warranty compared to a string inverter.

[jonezez]

I chose SolarEdge because I like the technology. I'm happy with my choice, but I've got to admit, Enphase's monitoring and reporting system is much, much better.

That's what I've consistently read when learning more about these choices... what is the SolarEdge with power optimizer reporting/monitoring like that makes it inferior?
And in the end, is monitoring something that is fun to see when you first have the system installed but then loses it's novelty after awhile? (some friends have told me this). Just wondering about the premium paid for microinverter technology...

[donald]

How do inverter manufacturers get away with not paying the installer for labor on warranty work? It seem to me that Enphase has set themselves up for long term problems with their long guarantee, regardless of not paying labor. It also seems that the Enphase guarantee makes them unattractive as a company for purchase by a larger business.

More than half the companies installing Enphase won't be in business in ten years. I assume at that point Enphase pays labor on warranty work.

[jonezez]

Why do so many installers quote enphase first?

My experience has been pretty black/white with quotes. Those that sell enphase really tout the benefits of microinverters and don't spend anytime on the string inverters... and vice-versa. Haven't had one that presents both options very objectively. Makes sense from a sales perspective i suppose

[sensij]

For SolarEdge specifically... these prices are less than 1 year old, but somewhat outdated...

For a 12 panel system (3 kW), local wholesale:

SMA SB3000TL-US-22 = $1266
SolarEdge (SE3000A + P300) : $1016 + 12 * $54 = $1664

Individual installers will mark equipment up differently, and there may be some additional labor for optimizers. Let's call the difference $500 post-incentive.

What does that post-incentive $500 buy?
1) Some higher production. Very few systems are truly shade free (just look at PVOutput data if you don't believe me), and the optimizers could outperform during those shaded periods. Other conditions in which SE will outperform... low clouds, non-uniform fouling, non-uniform panel degradation over time. I'm not saying these differences will add up to the price difference, but they do exist on paper, and there is not much independent data out there to quantify it.

2) Panel level energy reports make it easier to detect when shade does become a problem, and take action on it. Most people probably might not look at the reports with enough understanding to take advantage of this, though.

3) Better data accessibility. SMA data is stupidly difficult to share (and compare) on sites like PVOutput. A Raspberry PI or an always-on computer is required with a $200+ Webconnect card, or a $500+ Webbox takes care of it, either of which takes a big bite out of the price difference between systems. Fronius might be a better choice in this respect, and the new line of transformerless inverters seems to close the technical gaps that had existed on the IG Plus line.

For me, SolarEdge was an easy decision, especially since I don't assign much value to the SPS. I'm uncomfortable with the proprietary nature of their architecture, but see no reason to believe the failure rate is high enough to affect me over the economic life of the system.

[ButchDeal]

I'd really like to know that too. My guess at the answers are:
1) Many installers have little electronics background and overestimate the reliability of microinverters because they believe what the manufacturer says.
2) Installer think that microinverters are a "nice, simple solution" but they miss the Achilles heel involved.
3) Microinverters seem to be the "future of solar" - a "better, high-tech, internet connected" method.
4) Microinverters are a one size fits all solution and require less inventory. (This is true - but not a big deal)
5) Some installers that come from an electrical background are not familiar with (or are afraid of) wiring high-voltage DC power for string inverters.
6) Enphase, which has yet to turn a profit as a business, is buying its way into the market through warranties (that are really failure insurance) and installer incentives.
7) The public has accepted some or all of the above, and if you are buying soap, some installers will sell you soap.

4 & 5 mostly. As we are signing installers to our network nationally, we have had a few turn us down as they only want to install micros ( particular brand usually ) and are not familiar with any other method.

[solarix]

Why do so many installers quote enphase first?

I'd really like to know that too. My guess at the answers are:
1) Many installers have little electronics background and overestimate the reliability of microinverters because they believe what the manufacturer says.
2) Installer think that microinverters are a "nice, simple solution" but they miss the Achilles heel involved.
3) Microinverters seem to be the "future of solar" - a "better, high-tech, internet connected" method.
4) Microinverters are a one size fits all solution and require less inventory. (This is true - but not a big deal)
5) Some installers that come from an electrical background are not familiar with (or are afraid of) wiring high-voltage DC power for string inverters.
6) Enphase, which has yet to turn a profit as a business, is buying its way into the market through warranties (that are really failure insurance) and installer incentives.
7) The public has accepted some or all of the above, and if you are buying soap, some installers will sell you soap.

[donald]

Why do so many installers quote enphase first?

[solarix]

As a dealer/installer, my basic objection to either Enphase or Solaredge is I absolutely do not want to get into a situation where I am getting a phone call every week that "another one of those rooftop electronic thingys has failed". If I have 200 customers out there with 20 Enphases each, that is 4000. A 1% per year failure rate - which sooner or later is going to happen, means almost one day a week my ass is going to be on someone's roof dismantling the array to get at the one that failed, and if it happens within the first ten years, I'm not getting paid for it except for the cost of the device itself. Using string inverters, I just have 200 failure points and if 5% of them die in a year that is no big deal. Reliability is the linchpin of the solar industry with PV panels that are warranted for 25 years and really last twice that long. Jeopardizing that with some fancy electronics is bad business.

[donald]

Solaredge stock is doing much better than enphase. I assume this is, in part, due to Enphase's incompatibility with good battery design. Enphase sure seems to sell a lot of product, however. Installers must like it.
I agree with what is said above about keeping it simple with a string inverter, if possible. A solaredge system with optimizers is more expensive, but the rooftop devices are half the cost. Buying one or two spare optimizers is not much money.

[sensij]

I chose SolarEdge because I like the technology. I'm happy with my choice, but I've got to admit, Enphase's monitoring and reporting system is much, much better.

[sdold]

Well the reality is that those systems contain a lot of proprietary components that will probably not be available or technology has surpassed them and have been replaced.

Panels with other types of inverters, including microinverters, can be added to an Enphase system, but I agree with everything else. I agree that an array with no shading would be better off with a string inverter, but the OP seemed only interested in comparing Microinverters with Optimizers.